Tempo

Nola

Well-known member
I wrote a song that has a natural tempo of me of around 86bpm in 4/4. So, pretty slow...
Part of me thinks I should force the issue and make it faster -- when I do the music sounds pretty good still, but the vocals feel rushed.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had this problem and what you did.

thanks
 
I'm having that problem right this minute--or rather, taking a short break from having it. The guitar part wants to be a bit faster, the vocal a bit slower. Guitar parts come pretty easily for me, while vocals are really difficult. So the vocal wins, always. Same with key.
 
I'm having that problem right this minute--or rather, taking a short break from having it. The guitar part wants to be a bit faster, the vocal a bit slower. Guitar parts come pretty easily for me, while vocals are really difficult. So the vocal wins, always. Same with key.

interesting, robus, that you're having the same problem.

so you think i should keep it slow since the vocal works well at the slower tempo? that's what i was leaning toward, too, because otherwise the entire feel changes as the vocal gets fast. it almost starts to sound like a rap and like i don't have enough time between lines.

i guess another option would be to make the tempo faster and remove some of the lyrics. i'll experiment with that tomorrow.
 
Only you can decide - it's your song. If you want to speed it up, find a way to cut down the number of words so you can fit them in.
 
Yeah...it's up to you to decide what needs to be adjusted.

I'll usually get a feel for the song at the writing stage, and even at the early point, I will count out the BPMs so I know where I'm at.
Then as I further write/develop the song, I'll probably end up strumming/singing through it a millions times while working on it, and there are times when I change my mind about the tempo as the song develops...and sometimes it's maybe 1-2 BPM's up/down difference, and it either drops into the right groove or sounds weird.
I will always try the song out at a variety of BMPs from my original idea just to confirm the best choice.

Now...AFA guitar parts and all that other stuff....I don't write songs with anything other than the vocal and melody in mind.
I mean...I may have some ideas for what I'm going to do with the backing tracks, but rarely do I allow a backing track to drive my BPM choice.
IOW...the songs I write are about lyrics and melody...not licks and supporting stuff.
Of course, if you start off with some signature guitar lick, and it only sounds right at a certain BPM...well, then I guess you have to write the rest of the song around that. :)

Again...your song, your choice...but don't be afraid to depart from the original ideas if/when you run into conflicting situations...though you always want to keep in mind your original intent, and what it is about the song that you feel is the primary focus.

I have re-written lyrics to suit a more drastic change in tempo if I felt the tempo change makes the song come alive.
 
One thing I've noticed when I write. Often, when I am in the writing stage - I can normally find a tempo where the vocals and the guitars seem to work. However, when I move to the arranging/recording stage - suddenly when I add a bass guitar or drums etc. the song then seems to drag.

Naturally if I speed it up, then the lyrics seem rushed. So I may have to re-write some of the lyrics, drop a word here and there and change some of the vocal phrasing to accommodate a faster tempo.

At some point, I'm able to find a tempo that works. However, sometimes I can't find a tempo that works for a more detailed arrangement - and at times I have to re-think the arrangement and perhaps reduce the arrangement back to a simple guitar/vocal recording to save the integrity of the feel of the song.
 
Often, when I am in the writing stage - I can normally find a tempo where the vocals and the guitars seem to work. However, when I move to the arranging/recording stage - suddenly when I add a bass guitar or drums etc. the song then seems to drag.

Exactly
 
recently had the same problem yes, can relate to this, I ended up just slightly speeding up the tempo and slowing it down in the right bits and it sounded more natural for it, using cubase tempo track.
 
While playing rhythm guitar and singing a song, I never think about tempo, it just naturally settles in where it needs to be. Then when I go to record, setting the BPM to match gets weird.

Adding a click track in my DAW to start a project can be a little difficult. Not the adding.. but getting the BPM just right. I always maintain the same rate through the whole song, so no problems with change-ups in that area.

While strumming rhythm guitar, singing and tapping my foot, I start with a 4/4 @ 120 bpm. Today I needed to speed it up some so I bumped it to 140... too fast. So I began working down 1 beat at a time. At 138 it felt almost perfect so down again to 137.. oops! Now it's too slow. Back to 138 where it feels just the slightest bit rushed. Now I play through at 138 several times while singing and tapping my foot and I settle in comfortably. But..

When I play to it tomorrow it'll feel fast again at 138 and slow at 137. So I have to adjust myself each session.

Replacing Reaper's awful click track with a simple drum part helps as it's more like the real deal.
 
Arrgh! It's just messin' with me now :spank::laughings:137 seemed slow.. this morning.

Just now, focusing on the vocal in the refrain, the vocal tempo slows and only works with 136 bpm. It's very tight at 136 with the drum click track so that's where I have to lock in..

When I first pick up the guitar and start strumming, my natural rate is just a smidge lower than 138 and I have to play a few measures to adjust.

Playing this live with our old band, I was probably playing at 138 and dropping to 136 in the refrains - our excellent drummer picked up on it and the others followed.. on the fly.
 
I'll usually get a feel for the song at the writing stage

Often, when I am in the writing stage - I can normally find a tempo where the vocals and the guitars seem to work
It's quite rare that I'll get to the recording stage without having spent some time chewing the song over in my mind and therefore the tempo kind of naturally falls into line as I hum it over and over or think about it.
Over the last few months, I've written about 18 songs and they vary wildly in tempo. And a few of them have changed and most of them are multi part so they have different parts in them with different tempos. I've used drum tracks from older/already existing songs to make up the drum parts and so I've really been thinking a lot about tempo recently as I fly in the drums from one DAW to another. Some keep the original tempo of the song they're coming from but for the most part, I've sped them up or slowed them down as they're being transferred {in real time}. I have been finding it quite fascinating how a tiny difference can make such a change to the feel. For example, my Akai's centre point is 100% and it goes up to 113% and down to 68% so if we were dealing in pitch it goes up just over 2 steps and down just over 5 steps. That's pretty brisk to druggily slow. But a change from even 95 to 94 is so different.
In the past I've worked on songs for years that I always had a nagging feeling were a bit too fast or too slow and ended up re-recording.
when I move to the arranging/recording stage - suddenly when I add a bass guitar or drums etc. the song then seems to drag.
At least with the bass, that has worked as a positive advantage for me sometimes. Something that feels too quick or jerky suddenly seems to settle down and feel just right once the bass is there. I'm realizing that sometimes, it's not so much the tempo but the rhythmic feel that can make a song feel out of sorts.
 
Phase 2: spantini goes "Duhhh..":confused:

Well, after days of 136 bpm this monster began to feel rushed again. So... down it went.. and landed smack on 126 bpm. I played it over and over and over and THIS time it's right. Nothing feels rushed, especially the vocal, it's very relaxed and flows well. It's even tighter with the drums. What helped a lot was expanding the simple drum part (used as click track) into more of what the actual part will be in the final version - about 80% of it with accent beats to play off of. I got lucky and found a groove in MTPower Drums that nailed it.

The song is just verse and refrain with a break at midpoint for lead guitar.

Now I've got a couple of nice, puffy blisters on my fingers so I'm gonna lay off for a day and see if they toughen up any.
 
I can see where you could feel that the timing might be off on, especially if there are different sections. Rick Beato did a whole segment about how computer timing and things like BeatDetective ruined rock music because it took out the humanity. He showed how a bunch of really popular songs with real instruments had variations of 5 or 6 BPM depending on the section, and how new songs were quantized to have everything exactly on a straight beat.

My timing isn't that precise. Instead of click tracks, I would rather just get a simple drum beat and follow that with either MTPowerdrumkit, or my Alesis SR18. If I still knew any real drummers around my area, I would get them to join me and put the drum machine in the closet.
 
When I step edit drum parts I don't use the Quantize feature, but I do go through and offset selected notes by various amounts, such as dragging the notes left or right by the equivalent of a 1/64th, 1/32nd or 1/16th note length. The MT Power groove I'm using in this song has already got some of this incorporated, which was a nice surprise to discover.

I tried and tried using a simple click track but couldn't stay sync'ed. Not because I was off, I was in time all the way through. But there are spots where I hit the upbeat and it puts me just that much ahead of the click, and it doesn't sync up again until I do it three or four more times. Meanwhile, the effect this has (to my ears) is that the tempo has greatly speeded up and I unconciously speed up to follow and it all falls apart at that point.

With the right drum groove it matches my strumming and stays locked in.
 
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