Electronic U.S. Copyright application: How long before I can publicize the song?

i got the paper form, sr....filed in May arrived in Dec....so just fyi for anyone wondering.

2hrs to do the eForm and 6 months to get the paper thing.
 
Waaayyy back in July 2016, using the online electronic submission process, I submitted a CD collection of 12 songs with me as author using the SR Form.
Last week I received my official paperwork Certificate of Registration - some 20 months later.

As I was applying, I screen-captured every page and subsequent emails.

The cost of my SR submission was $55.

I submitted each as an .mp3 file and added notes wherever possible, including the year of authorship as part of the song name.

I received instant confirmation upon completion of the online form, as well as instant email confirmation. Also received an email confirmation which listed
each song title, file type and size, and all attached notes.

I received a letter from the Library of Congress 45 days prior to receiving my official Certificate of Registration - asking me to confirm my submission
or make changes.

I'm currently working on my next CD (12 more songs), but several side projects have slowed the progress.
 
Thanks for the helpful context, spantini.

Twenty months..."Your US tax dollars at work." :mad:

Thanks for clarifying the combination of submissions and the sequence in which you filed them. And thanks for suggesting screen captures for every page.

You wrote, "I submitted each as an .mp3 file and added notes wherever possible, including the year of authorship as part of the song name."

Q1. Besides adding year of authorship in the song name, did you add it to the song FILE name? Are there other ways to attach notes as you mention?


You wrote, "I received instant confirmation upon completion of the online form, as well as instant email confirmation. Also received an email confirmation which listed each song title, file type and size, and all attached notes."

Q2. Did you feel amply protected upon receipt of these EMAIL confirmations. In other words, would you feel confident in posting one of the songs to YouTube?


You wrote, "...but several side projects have slowed the progress."
The story of my life...:D

...as i get older, my equipment gets smaller

HA! My studio occupies a spare bedroom, so if we say it affects "bedroom activities" THAT'S what we mean, right? Actually, I often think about my first demo studio built around a Teac A-3340S 1/4" 4-track. My digital equipment provides 50 times the capabilities, has cost me 1/4 of what I spent on "real equipment", and when I shut down, 90% of it DISAPPEARS! :eek: Too good. I don't even have to dust anything. :D
 
interesting....I just got a piece of paper too this week. it was a nicer looking form but not as impressive as the 80's stuff with stamped brail signed signatures etc....but this version is better than the last couple I got.
This one says Oct 17, 2017...so 5 months plus a few days for this one too.

I dont know if its really as necessary as it used to be? maybe thats just me thinking that.

As you mentioned with all the digital signatures embedded into recording tracks on a pc theres a lot of "proof" of dates, where as the olden golden days time stamps werent automatic, as on tape or scrolls.

Maybe a waste of money?
 
Thanks for the helpful context, spantini.

...

You wrote, "I submitted each as an .mp3 file and added notes wherever possible, including the year of authorship as part of the song name."

Q1. Besides adding year of authorship in the song name, did you add it to the song FILE name? Are there other ways to attach notes as you mention?


No. The .mp3 filenames were just the song titles. There is a section where you give your submission (as a whole) a name for reference, then drop down and list each song separately on it's own line. This is where I tagged the years of authorship onto the ends of the song titles.

If I recall correctly, about halfway through the process there is a section specifically for adding additional information you may want to include - a sort of 'liner notes' thing. You can write whatever you want there.


You wrote, "I received instant confirmation upon completion of the online form, as well as instant email confirmation. Also received an email confirmation which listed each song title, file type and size, and all attached notes."

Q2. Did you feel amply protected upon receipt of these EMAIL confirmations. In other words, would you feel confident in posting one of the songs to YouTube?


The email confirmations left me with a sense of assurance and protection. However.. if at this point you have plans to go commercial with your works, I would not put any of them out in a public domain until I had received my actual Certificate of Registration.


...as i get older, my equipment gets smaller[/I]

HA! My studio occupies a spare bedroom, so if we say it affects "bedroom activities" THAT'S what we mean, right? Actually, I often think about my first demo studio built around a Teac A-3340S 1/4" 4-track. My digital equipment provides 50 times the capabilities, has cost me 1/4 of what I spent on "real equipment", and when I shut down, 90% of it DISAPPEARS! :eek: Too good. I don't even have to dust anything. :D

:laughings:

My first home studio was built around a Tascam 38 1/2" 8-Track & 2 4-channel dbx units so I could use the 1/2" master tapes from the other home studios our bands had been using.
 
Thanks for the follow-up. Man, waiting 20 months (or even 5 months as reported by CoolCat) is a problem. In the interest of posting to YouTube SOON, consider the following:

I've been thinking about YouTube as sort of a second-line authentication, or Proof of Authorship. By that I mean, if I post a song demo on YouTube on April 1, 2018 that would seem to establish 4/1/18 as a date of authorship - proof that would further substantiate the date claimed in my Copyright application. I think it would be difficult for someone else to claim ownership of that song after 4/1/18.

Please do punch holes in this theory whereever possible.​


A LITTLE TEAC ANALOG BACKGROUND

As for your TASCAM 38 1/2" 8-track, I was always "Planning & Saving" for a TEAC 80-8 but never got there. I used to diagram how to bounce tracks and take full advantage of those extra tracks. And if I ever made any "real money" I would buy a 16-track 85-16. I used to dream about that thing! It looked soooo good in that pale gray color...:D

And BTW, I ran two 2-channel rack-mount dbx noise reduction units with my A-3340S. One unit didn't work quite right; I could never get it calibrated perfectly via the little screwdriver adjusters. Just another example of "it's always sumthin" and another reason why I love mixing "in the box" without all the gear of yesteryear. :thumbs up:
 
Well, I can't offer legal advice. Technically, your material is copyrighted as soon as you've created (authored) it - as was mentioned in an earlier post - but it's not registered yet.
As long as YouTube might still be around between now and when you do register your song(s), that would be an additional record (kinda like the ol' mail-it-to-yourself-and-keep-it-unopened thing).

As I said earlier, I wouldn't put my unregistered song(s) up on YouTube, but that's me - a personal choice. I don't have the same goals as you. And in reality, what you do put out there will most likely not be ripped off.

Also mentioned earlier - waiting until they're registered before putting them into the public domain will greatly simplify any claims of infringement which you may bring towards those who may have ripped off your goods.

So after all that, I think you've got the bug and are going to post some YouTube vids.. :D
 
As a counterpoint, I freely post my music anywhere and/or everywhere on the internet before I register my tunes. I'm not worried about anyone stealing my tunes.

As an added note, be sure to register your tunes with a performing rights organization like BMI. If your tune is played anywhere, you should get paid for it. Joining a PRO is free.
 
CoolCat- Im with you. this is unnecessary nowadays.

Just publish it through. . anyone.
BandCamp. YouTube. SoundCloud. Wherever. And press a CDR with datestamps.

Then... when you think your UNIQUE idea got ripped off by Farrell... you have all the proof you need.

Plus- you are WAY more likely to get some listens that way.. or maybe even someone wanting to licence a sample!
$55 to register your copyright?! IMO that is a waste of $55. Publishing with CD Baby will get you the same protection for $35.

0.2
 
...I wouldn't put my unregistered song(s) up on YouTube, but that's me - a personal choice.
Just to be clear, I would only post to YouTube if I had already submitted the LoC electronic copyright application.

...what you do put out there will most likely not be ripped off.
Man, I want to believe that :D but if the material is good I think it's a target for getting lifted. If you care to, please tell me more about why you think otherwise.

...waiting until they're registered before putting them into the public domain will greatly simplify any claims...
Agreed. My intention is to register electronically on Monday and receive electronic confirmation of the registration later that day (as you described several posts earlier). Then on Wednesday I'd upload a basic music performance video to YouTube (so the YouTube upload happens a day or two after I receive confirmation of my electronic submission to the Library of Congress).

Do you, spantini, or does anybody else see a problem with that?


So after all that, I think you've got the bug and are going to post some YouTube vids.. :D
Yes indeedy :D but only after submitting the electronic registration as described above.
 
As a counterpoint, I freely post my music anywhere and/or everywhere on the internet before I register my tunes. I'm not worried about anyone stealing my tunes.
Why not? Really good, meaningful work is hard to come by, and stealing is so much easier than creating...

As an added note, be sure to register your tunes with a performing rights organization like BMI. If your tune is played anywhere, you should get paid for it. Joining a PRO is free.
Thanks for mentioning that, Chili. Is there a consensus as to WHICH ONE might be best for a new songwriter and (very) occasional performer with a limited repertoire, so far?
 
CoolCat- Im with you. this is unnecessary nowadays. Just publish it...BandCamp. YouTube. SoundCloud. Wherever.
If it comes to an actual lawsuit, that Library of Congress registration will give you a LOT of legal clout. I'm not so sure about BandCamp, SoundCloud, etc because they don't operate according to the same standards the LoC does...

And press a CDR with datestamps.
That's a GREAT idea. Thanks. FWIW I recently learned that data recorded to a standard CD or DVD might fail in as little as 5 years...depending on the quality of the writer device, the process, and the quality of the disk media. The way around it is to purchase ARCHIVAL CD or DVD disks, which last a lot longer but are much more expensive.

Publishing with CD Baby will get you the same protection [as a US Library of Congress copyright registration] ]for $35.
I kinda doubt it. I wouldn't want to go to court relying only on the records and reputation of on an entity known as "CD Baby." :D Think about it...
 
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Thanks for mentioning that, Chili. Is there a consensus as to WHICH ONE might be best for a new songwriter and (very) occasional performer with a limited repertoire, so far?

Yes, absolutely; BMI. They are free and they cater to the singer/songwriter crowd and lowlifes, like me. ASCAP has (or had) a requirement that you have 'commercially' released material before you could join. That might have changed since I last looked because the internet as blurred the meaning of commercially released. BMI gets paid when you get paid, like it should be. You can be a member of only one PRO at a time.

Why not? Really good, meaningful work is hard to come by, and stealing is so much easier than creating...

Well, you kinda answered your own question. ;)
 
If it comes to an actual lawsuit, that Library of Congress registration will give you a LOT of legal clout....

I kinda doubt it. I wouldn't want to go to court relying only on the records and reputation of on an entity known as "CD Baby." :D Think about it...

Absolutely correct. The ONLY way to get protection is to be the first to register your material with the copyright office. In the US, that is. Other countries might have different laws. It is my understanding that the UK allows for the poor man's copyright (that sealed envelope mailed to yourself thingy).

I think these days, the only way to really stumble into an infringement case is if there is a misunderstanding between band members. One guy writes a song and brings it to the band. Maybe he lets them add signature riffs or write their own bassline or something. Then the other band members get to thinking they are songwriters on that song and should get credit. Then the band breaks up and the bass player claims credit for the song in his new band and goes on to make millions. Those damn bass players..... :mad:
 
Absolutely correct. The ONLY way to get protection is to be the first to register your material with the copyright office. In the US, that is.


Well yes here in the U.S to be able to sue for copyright infringement and win you must have a copyright registered with the U.S. copyright office ..

Being first to register does not guarantee you will win. Let's say I write a song and show it to you. You copy it and change it a little and file for a copyright. All of a sudden it's a hit and the money is rolling in and I go WTF? I can go to the copyright office and show proof that you stole my song by showing versions that were put out on the net before the date you filed and can get your copyright invalidated and still get a copyright for my song. Now this all takes time and money and there is the chance the examiner doesn't buy that you weren't the originator but being first for sure does not guarantee that you're protected if you truly stole the work.
 
Well yes here in the U.S to be able to sue for copyright infringement and win you must have a copyright registered with the U.S. copyright office ..

Being first to register does not guarantee you will win. Let's say I write a song and show it to you. You copy it and change it a little and file for a copyright. All of a sudden it's a hit and the money is rolling in and I go WTF? I can go to the copyright office and show proof that you stole my song by showing versions that were put out on the net before the date you filed and can get your copyright invalidated and still get a copyright for my song. Now this all takes time and money and there is the chance the examiner doesn't buy that you weren't the originator but being first for sure does not guarantee that you're protected if you truly stole the work.

I am not sure the copyright office does arbitration like that. Maybe they do, I haven't read that in any of their articles. I think they would leave the decision to a judge.

However, no matter how good it looks on paper, based on the Led Zepplin lawsuits, an infringement case is not so straight-forward. I guess anything could happen.
 
"Those damn bass players...:mad: " HA!

Yes, absolutely; BMI. They are free and they cater to the singer/songwriter crowd and lowlifes, like me. ASCAP has (or had) a requirement that you have 'commercially' released material before you could join. That might have changed since I last looked because the internet has blurred the meaning of commercially released. BMI gets paid when you get paid, like it should be. You can be a member of only one PRO at a time.
"...and lowlifes like me." Ha! I kinda doubt that. :D

Thanks a TON for this insight. I did not know BMI is free, or that ASCAP requires preexisting commercial releases.

I have a vague awareness that other newer online-based organizations now exist, but the whole thing is a confusing blur. I don't know which of them are trustworthy or how their rates and services compare. I'd like to research this, so if anybody knows a good, unbiased source for comparing Performing Rights Organizations, please advise. Otherwise, I'll probably just research BMI carefully and go with them if they seem like a good fit.

Also thank you, Chili, for the heads-up regarding ONE performing rights organization at a time.

I've been Googling, but can't find this: Does anybody know where to find LISTS of famous recording artists' affiliations with BMI, ASCAP and other PROs?
 
Well yes here in the U.S to be able to sue for copyright infringement and win you must have a copyright registered with the U.S. copyright office.
If that's accurate it means I absolutely MUST submit the copyright registration.

Being first to register does not guarantee you will win...I can go to the copyright office and show proof that you stole my song by showing versions that were put out on the net before the date you filed and can get your copyright invalidated and still get a copyright for my song
And that's exactly why I think publishing to YouTube is "a good thing." I also will record my work to CDs with all file dates intact, per member camn's suggestion.
 
... does anybody else see a problem with that?

Only that you're overly concerned. :D ;)

I always copyright my songs...but that's a habit I got into going back to the early '80s...when everything was done with hardcopy/snail-mail.
About 15 years ago I switched to the electronic submission....I was actually part of their initial beta-program, and was in the first group of people to try out the electronic method.
I've got a batch of new songs to submit...but the last time I submitted anything was around 2015...?

AFA people stealing and all that....odds are very, very, very small.
There is just so much music out on the Internet, probably much of it not copyrighted...and you don't see hundreds/thousands of copyright cases every year.
It seems to only hit you after you become famous...and then it's usually someone claiming that you stole something! :p

The 5 months wait is pretty standard...but that's just to get the official hardcopy registration. The minute you submit, it's copyrighted.

Is it really necessary...I don't now, it's a personal decision. If you are writing killer songs (I'm sure every songwriter is convinced they are :laughings:)...then by all means do it.
Also...the misguided notion about simply posting your music is as good as doing the copyright submission...is well, misguided.
That goes back to the old days when people would mail a cassette to themselves via registered mail, and then never open it until/unless they needed to sue someone for copyright infringement.
Well...those registered mail copies STILL would need to be officially copyrighted BEFORE you could begin a copyright infringement lawsuit....so doing it at the start makes more sense.
The biggest drawback it seems for most people...they don't want to spend the $35-$50 (not even sure what it is today electronically) per song on the fee...
...but ironically these same people are going to want to sue for millions if their music gets ripped off. :)

I think most of the recording/uploading newbs these days aren't even aware of this stuff...they just want to post their music, so they don't bother with copyright.
 
I am not sure the copyright office does arbitration like that.

Yes you can get a copyright tossed out..... it isn't arbitration though....I was actually an expert witness in a case where we got a companies copyright invalidated. If you have proof that they stole your work (they misrepresented / lied on their application) The copyright office can and will with solid proof invalidate the copyright.

17 U.S.C. § 411(b)(2). Recall that the Copyright Act provides for the invalidation of registrations where the registrant knowingly misrepresented information in his application and “the inaccuracy of the information, if known, would have caused the Register of Copyrights to refuse registration.”
 
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