Do you consciously try to make your lyrics rhyme ?

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
Do you consciously try to make your lyrics rhyme ? And do you find lyrics that don't rhyme to be untidy ?
 
it really depends on the song structure ....... but most of the time I end up rhyming.

But I don't find it untidy if they don't as long as it works with the song structure....... in fact I think it's uber cool when successful.
 
Of course, rhyming is one of the main tools for getting people to listen to your song. If it rhymes, it's easier to remember, if it's easier to remember, it will stick in the listener's brain, if it sticks in their brain, they'll listen to your other songs and hopefully buy your music.

The perfect song is one that rhymes and the listener doesn't notice. (Everybody bitch about the 'perfect song' comment... and Go!!)
 
Since I am more of a traditional writing with a deep appeciation for the "Brill Building", Tin Pan Alley" writers - I do work very hard to make lines rhyme. That could be line 1&2 and 3 and 4 - or just line 2 and 4 - whatever the song calls for.

I also look for opportunities to use "inside" rhymes (rhymes within a line) - and I'm not adverse to "near rhymes" if that is what's needed to craft a solid story.

While I don't consider songs that don't rhyme "sloppy" - if a song has some line rhyme and other do not - that to me could reflect a lazy attempt.

Interestingly, I recently attended a meeting of a local songwriter group and one of the attendees (his first time there) was a guy from Japan - who spoke English - but not well.

He was very surprised that Americans place so must focus on rhyming,. He indicated that in Japan, the lyrics tell a story regardles of rhyme - as long as the rhythem of the melody follows the harmony progression.
 
Interestingly, I recently attended a meeting of a local songwriter group and one of the attendees (his first time there) was a guy from Japan - who spoke English - but not well.

He was very surprised that Americans place so much focus on rhyming. He indicated that in Japan, the lyrics tell a story regardless of rhyme - as long as the rhythm of the melody follows the harmony progression.
It's not just Americans. It's a very English thing too. Britpop and rock has long been obsessed with rhyming which has had the result in many instances of many lyrically lame songs {though the overall songs may be fantastic} and I think that makes it harder sometimes for listeners to accept non rhymes. It just feels strange.
But listening to music in other genres {some progressive and jazz rock} non rhymes are not unusual at all. And Listening to Celtic folk {the stuff sung in Gaelic or English} or much Latin {Portuguese or Spanish} or African stuff or Israeli songs or even a lot of the more 90s R&B and freestyling, there is so much there that doesn't rhyme at all. It doesn't sound lopsided to me either. In fact, I don't even think about it. Rhymes don't seem to have been or to be particularly important to much of the world's lyricists over the years. Saying what you feel and getting the words to melodically flow seems to be of much more importance.
I'm at home rhyming or not as the case may be. I do find rhyming to be a good discipline though. It's as much a musical/sonic device as any other that one may care to name.
 
I do find rhyming to be a good discipline though.
It can often draw things into lyric that wouldn't have been there if one was just communicating straight feeling. That can of course be to a song's detriment, but it can also be truly funny or dramatic.
 
I'm a rhyme snob which is why rap makes little or no sense to me.
I use perfect rhymes the vast majority of the time all the way down to tense and plural agreement being modified yet consistent to make it happen. Being able to express an idea within that circumstance is a big tick for me.
I started a songwriting course just for the hell of it but when they started on the vaste range of non rhymes that are considered family rhymes, (for eg: v TH z zh j being considered actual VOICED rhymes and f th s sh ch being UNVOICED and all therefor fair game - fair go - if someone can't say TH and uses F - fink instead of think - they aren't pilloried but they aren't held up as a good example of speech either - I reckon I could get away with psghetti these days), I gave up - yes it allows a broader pallet but it also panders to those less inclined to craft their words. I like blank verse in lyrics and have quite a few songs in my album collection that are blank and I love; but not the in between stuff that supposed masters, like Marshal Mathers, come up with.
 
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I first think of the message I'm trying to convey, as a basic theme. Then, I try and fill it out line-by-line, with the right amount of syllables for timing. Then I'll go through and take the words and try and make them rhyme when possible.

By when possible, I mean I try and make a rhyme happen so long as the meaning is still there, and above all, so long as it's not obvious that I'm making a 'stretch' just for the sake of rhyming.

I will say, however, that the melody is more important to me than the lyrics actually rhyming on a consistent basis, and I'm trying more and more to actively stray away from rhyming almost every line, since there are so many great songs out there that often don't rhyme at all.
 
I like variety, I always think its skill if you can make an word that does not rhyme work in a song... delivery is key there to me. I find I myself sorda think about the rhyme first, but sometimes just end up with something that doesnt.. thats more rare though
 
I'm a rhyme snob which is why rap makes little or no sense to me.
I sorta feel that way about poetry.
Nowadays I'll hear someone on NPR read their latest 'poem' .... described as a poem by them and the douchebag NPR guy and it's not a poem to me at all.
More like a short story.

I don't see how you can call a short story a poem.
 
Do you consciously try to make your lyrics rhyme ? And do you find lyrics that don't rhyme to be untidy ?

I use to consciously try not to rhyme, but I found it was harder trying to say what I wanted to say and it be worded really good. So, now I use more rhyming and it's become much easier to write lyrics. Weird.

That said I also sometimes just want the lyrics to go with the rhythms. So, sometimes they rhyme and sometimes they don't. Here's an example of what I mean.

---------------------------------------------

Human Cockroach

Verse 1
Nothing but a parasite - Leaching off the earth
Feeding off each other - intellectual dearth
Over population - Destroyer of all life
Disease left in it's wake - Infestation runs rife
Chorus
Crawling like a fucking worm - Squirming though your fucking brain
Humanity's lost it's mind - Hellish joke like paradigm
Poisonous contamination - Polluting it's mothers womb
Biting off it's mothers tit - Until life becomes unfit
Verse 2
Preying on the weak - Scrounging off the poor
Mating with children - Killing their unborn
Psycho sociopaths -Murder just for fun
Brainwashed by religion - Blind eyed fucking scum
Bridge
Slaughtering the innocent until life becomes dissonant
Dehumanized, sensationalized, but not to my surprise
Your coward leaders sold your soul for pennies on a rice bowl
And you let them because you are all fucking sheep
With no brains to think for yourself
Verse 3
Rotating through the universe - On a giant ball of dirt
Lives the human roach - With extinction it flirts
Enjoying the pain of others - Brothers killing brothers
Turing the other cheek - Is only for the weak


 
I'm not averse to half-rhymes though. For example, I would he happy rhyming 'blade' with 'day' if the song needed it.

I consciously aim at near-rhymes sometimes. I like taking words that don't really rhyme but are sorta similar and bending the second one so it sounds like the first. The brain's clocking the meaning of the second word, but the ear's hearing the sound of the first word.
 
Human Cockroach

Verse 1
Nothing but a parasite - Leaching off the earth
Feeding off each other - intellectual dearth
Over population - Destroyer of all life
Disease left in it's wake - Infestation runs rife
Chorus
Crawling like a fucking worm - Squirming though your fucking brain
Humanity's lost it's mind - Hellish joke like paradigm
Poisonous contamination - Polluting it's mothers womb
Biting off it's mothers tit - Until life becomes unfit
Verse 2
Preying on the weak - Scrounging off the poor
Mating with children - Killing their unborn
Psycho sociopaths -Murder just for fun
Brainwashed by religion - Blind eyed fucking scum
Bridge
Slaughtering the innocent until life becomes dissonant
Dehumanized, sensationalized, but not to my surprise
Your coward leaders sold your soul for pennies on a rice bowl
And you let them because you are all fucking sheep
With no brains to think for yourself
Verse 3
Rotating through the universe - On a giant ball of dirt
Lives the human roach - With extinction it flirts
Enjoying the pain of others - Brothers killing brothers
Turing the other cheek - Is only for the weak

This is awesome. I gotta get into this kind of music.
 
My writing is for musical theater to, yes, it always rhymes and I abhor near-rhymes. I also try for internal rhymes, i.e. rhymes in the middle of one line that pair with its partner line, in addition to having the final word rhyme. I also keep my rhyme scheme consistent within the matching sections of song. One of the reasons I despise rap and hip-hop (and there are many other reasons) is the poor rhyming and boring rhyme schemes. I'm more tolerant non-rhymed or near-rhymed lyrics in rock and folk, which I think of as analogous to free-verse. In musical theater lyric writing and composition, Stephen Sondheim is God (not "a" god, but God). When in peak form, he can write lyrics so dense with rhyme, but perfectly fitted to story and music, it can make you dizzy. If you're interested, take a look at the lyrics for "A Little Priest" from Sweeney Todd.
 
My writing is for musical theater to, yes, it always rhymes and I abhor near-rhymes. I also try for internal rhymes, i.e. rhymes in the middle of one line that pair with its partner line, in addition to having the final word rhyme. I also keep my rhyme scheme consistent within the matching sections of song. One of the reasons I despise rap and hip-hop (and there are many other reasons) is the poor rhyming and boring rhyme schemes. I'm more tolerant non-rhymed or near-rhymed lyrics in rock and folk, which I think of as analogous to free-verse. In musical theater lyric writing and composition, Stephen Sondheim is God (not "a" god, but God). When in peak form, he can write lyrics so dense with rhyme, but perfectly fitted to story and music, it can make you dizzy. If you're interested, take a look at the lyrics for "A Little Priest" from Sweeney Todd.

It seems a bit snooty tooty for most people's tastes, but I'm sure you're on par with Kelsey Grammer's beloved character Frasier Crane. Keep in mind this is the hip hop generation of the USA. These are people who study English for 13 years and even if they do get their high school diploma they still can't write a complete sentence or use proper grammar. It just ain't cool to seem too smart, dawg. Only perceived street smarts for the studio gangsta.
 
I must have snooty written all over me - but then again I am a rhyming snob. For me perfect rhyming falls over when the writer doesn't really understand the correct meaning or syntax of the word. That's often the case with songs written/sung in English by non native speakers: Abba were the most famous though not always most obvious exponents of this. Not always the case though - & becoming less so. It's has also become more common with native speakers who raid rhyming dictionaries with only a glance at the Pocket Collins afterward or when Lou Reed rhymes vial & vile.
Sweeny Todd is great writing - and the cube performance from the mid 80's was it's peak for me.
 
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