Where to start?

aldtech

New member
Where to start?

Newbie here and this is my second post.

So I'm an old fart guitar player who is getting increasingly pissed off at loosing my creative moments every time I play/practice. Back in the day (think 80s-90s) I would record my "practices" for posterity on a Tascam 246 or through it to a TEAC real to real (more economical time and media wise). Once I got to the end of the tape I would review and bounce down to an idea tape then record over the practice sessions. Subsequently since those days all my stuff got ripped off when leaving the service (US Army) from Germany back to the states which leaves me with having to start over equipment wise again. That was quite a pisser of a loss and I'll just leave that there.

Anyways, here I am today and I want to get back to recording but I don't have a proper idea of where to start equipment wise. I really loved the simplicity of analogue tape recording and I got pretty good at bouncing things around and mixing it all down but looking around I come to realization that tape is no longer a viable format (nor can you find it on the cheap) and digital is the way to go. But what do you start with? I have a guitar/amp and an effects processor as well as an older POD XT and I've been thinking of using an old boom box that I have sitting around as well as a not so old Mackie mixer just to get the practice recordings gong again but obviously I will need more than that as I will want to mix it down to something. As far as the POD XT goes, because of its age the software associated with it is not usable with today's computer technology. Specifically, the Line 6 software for that model is incompatible with Windows 10 or any other 64 bit OS. Money is always a factor as well as space so I'm looking for a small portable device to begin with that I can connect to a PC and utilize today's supportive recording software.

So I've been looking at what is out there (no more Fostex) and things have gotten small. The smallness of what I'm seeing definitely hits my space restrictions but I really like the concept of being able to premix my recording source but I guess that is not necessary with today's technology. Sounds like a learning curve to me. Looks like Tascam, Zoom and Boss are whats available in today's portable/small market. So which one? I like the Tascam DP series and the Zoom BR8 but what to choose. If you have an opinion along with pro and cons of specific models please share if you can.

Thanks for looking and for all replies in advance,

aldtech
 
I had a Tascam tape machine as well. Too much fun.
Now I have a Zoom L-12 which serves my purposes well. Maybe take a look at the Zoom L-8. Looks small, portable, and can record to a SD card or directly into DAW.
Can run on batteries as well.
 
My experience is with the Tascam DP-03SD. It's great for getting a quick idea down before it evaporates - keeping everything plugged in waiting for the ON switch facilitates this. Can also do complete songs with simple mastering and stereo mixdowns. Individual tracks can be transferred to PC as WAV files and dropped into whatever DAW you might have.

Looks like The Zoom and Boss are similar and can offer more bells and whistles.
 
Oh man....SO MANY possibilities !! I use a PC and a DAW these days and started with analog as you did. I would never go back.....but ot be honest......if your comfort zone is as old as mine was........the Tascam DP series feels as close to analog recording as possible.......while still being 100% digital and transferable. Lots of people still use them and they're not outdated.
 
I've got the Zoom H4n which is great for portability and doing recording quick and dirty practice sessions. For more expansive recording I've got a Zoom R24 on which I've done full songs on it including drums and bass. Its also my portable recording rig, I have used it for a number of years for recording jam sessions.

At home in the basement is my Tascam 16x08. That doesn't travel with a tower computer, video monitor and external speakers.

The Tascam DP24SD would also be on my list if I was looking something to play around on. Its similar to the R24. The Livetrak series from Zoom and the Tascam Model 12 and 16 are nice if you ever plan to use them with a live setup. They'll record but can also act as mixing consoles for your PA.
 
OK - thanks for the input so far. I initially posted this a few days ago and during that time I continued to research on what is what vs recording technology (16 bit-24 bit) vs additional features (effects) vs computer and DAW compatible/usability. I did fail to mention that a few years ago while I was trying to get my POD XT to work with my computer, I got an ART USB Dual Pre computer interface. While I did get that to work the latency drove me nuts and after continuously tinkering with it I managed to make it worse which was the give up point for me.

I gotta tell you I really like the Zoom R8 and the the newer L8. The R8 seems to have everything a solo musician could need to not only lay down some initial guitar tracks but also the ability to create some basic drum tracks to flesh it all out. While the L8 does not have a a drum machine it does have up to 12 track simultaneous recording. Those are some rich features. Now Tascam is not too shabby either but like the Zoom products, the more features you fixate on the more the price goes up. By the time I get drooling I look at the sticker (both new and used) and get bummed out. But if you get something that is too old you can end up with 16 bit recording and limited to no DAW support capabilities. And while I have not found any confirmations, I suspect I'm going to find some software compatibility issues too on the older systems. Hopefully not after I put money down.

As far as Tascam goes, the DP-02 and 3 look nice but even at their age for the prices I'm finding them for used I can get a used Zoom R8 ( if you can find one) and save money or kick in a little more $ and get a new L8. The DP-08 and 08EX look nice and the reviews are great in regards to ease of use and that gets my attention, ease of use. If I'm playing through my POD or amp, I can already have it configured to record almost immediately and not loose any inspiration I might be having at the time. That's good because at my age if I have to spend 15-20 minutes to set up the recorder I might just as quickly lose the moment/motivation.

I guess that is what it really comes down to, ease of use vs computer usability vs tracks and features. That is proving a hard balance to get.

Now here is something I'm looking at locally that has caught my eye, a Tascam DP-01FX for $100.

Upside - 8 track recording, built in HD, effects, multiple input sources with phantom powered XLR inputs, USB connection to PC and there are other features as well as some great reviews on YouTube.

Downside - Only 2 tracks at a time recording, 16 bit recording, a lot bigger that the DP-04/06/08 recorders and the USB to PC interface is limited to wave file transfers. The no DAW support really put the steak in the heart on this one as well. But I would almost take a working 4 track tape recorder at that price point any day.

So with more information what do you think?

Again, thanks for looking and for any replies in advance.

aldtech
 
Well, the Art was USB 1.1 (old tech), so latency could have been an issue back when it first came out. Note that latency is really not an issue if you direct monitor your new tracks, rather than feeding them into your DAW (for FX) and monitoring that.
If you want to be able to mix well, record more than 2 tracks at a time, or want to mix more than 8 tracks (how many are separate, how many are actually 2 tracks (stereo?) than a stand-alone recorder will limit you severely. I recorded on a Boss with 8 tracks - but it was actually 4 mono tracks and 2 stereo tracks. I had to bounce down tracks during mixing (the Boss had 8 virtual tracks per track, you could select any one of them), try to move the tiny sliders for volume, no automation. The USB feature of those small recorders is to move tracks in and out of the device only.
 
Get a current device. If you want to connect to PC/DAW having current drivers will be a no hassle blessing.
I say spend a bit more and be happy for years to come.
 
Just replying to the previous posts.

Dave Matthews - Both the Zoom R8 and L8 have got my attention as I've mentioned and I'm really hoping to get lucky finding one (R8 as it is not so new) within my cash striking range. If I can it's a done deal.

spantini - I know exactly what you mean in regards to doing something quickly. The Tascam DP series comes across as a platform that represents that ability.

Mickster - Yup, as I mentioned in my last post, I've tried going straight PC/DAW and couldn't get comfortable with it. But as mjbphotos just mentioned, it could very well have been the USB version that was giving me such grief.

TalismanRich - If space was not such an issue for me a larger more robust recording platform would be more in play here. As it stands, even the DP-01FX that I'm looking right now for $100 has no space to call its own if I were to get it.

berroni - FLP, until I started writing this post I didn't even know what you were talking about then I searched it on YouTube and voila, FruityLoops. I actually have a very old version of their software sitting on some storage drive somewhere. Great recommendation thanks, I'm going to have to revisit that as I start to tie in whatever platform I start with.

mjbphotos - "The USB interface is fully compliant with the USB 1.1 specification" referenced in the very lite manual means that it is backwards compatible and further on it does mention that is is USB 2.0. Having said that you post along with Mickster's and berroni's posts has set me off into re-visiting that (dusty) device and giving it a second shot sometime this weekend (maybe??). I got so close to nailing that thing down and like you said, I should just be listening to my direct feed and not what's coming through my PC but if my direct feed is dry there is no joy in listening to it. Hmm, what did I just say there? I was really getting into Amplitube when I was tinkering with the interface and loved the amp plug ins (Carvin V3M, big Carvin fan). Looks like I will be dusting that off too.

Also, something mjbphotos mentioned about "virtual tracks" is something I am reading about which is further pushing me along to a more current/robust recording platform. I've got to wrap my head around it first but that feature has got me going "Hmm" more than anything right now. What are some of your experiences with using that and direct in with computers? Please post it. This is not just about me, I'm quite sure there are others who can benefit from the info.

As always, thanks for looking and your feedback.

Regards,

aldtech


PS - If this thread should be in a different group (and could get more views) please make you recommendations. Forum mods - please move it.

Thx



Dave Matthews - yup, looks like I'm going in that direction. I'm not sure the wife is going to be happy though. Thx. :)



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Well the Boss BR-532 is defiantly out. Since I'm a newb here I can't post the YouTube link. LOL, that looked painful.


:facepalm:


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Get a brand new Tascam DP-24SD and be done with it. They're fantastic for the $$. They can work as a powerful "scratch pad" - or take you on to full blown high quality demos - including mastering capabilities. All "in the box".

If you do get one of these - here's a few very strong tips:

1) Upgrade the firmware immediately

2) Use *only* Tascam approved SD cards

3) Watch the Phil Tipping video tutorial series on youtube

4) Check out the Tascam user forum for advanced support: 2488 and DP-24/32 Digital Portastudios | TASCAM Forums
 
Get a current device. If you want to connect to PC/DAW having current drivers will be a no hassle blessing.
I say spend a bit more and be happy for years to come.

+1 to that with knobs on. The L word was mentioned and so it becomes vital to look at the latest equipment and those with good drivers. IMHO only a good AI and a decent * PC/laptop will do.

I shall of course(!) recommend the Native Instruments KA6 but if I was looking now I would go for one of the new MOTUs, most probably the M4. Of course" THE dog's danglers for lowest latency and decades of support is RME but going to upset 'er indoors even more!

*Almost anything made in the last 5 yrs will serve. So long as it is 'clean' and other ***t is stopped, usually wireless network adaptors. My old i3 HP was fine with my KA6 so anything i5 or better should be fast enough.

Dave.
 
Just an update.

ecc83, Dave Mathews - I gave my USB Dual Pre another chance and actually got it working. For about 20-30 minutes then it just got all distorted. I was using Amplitube, I had an old account from a few years back (when I first tried) and it started off great. The latency was almost acceptable and as I was navigating around remembering how to select different amps. Then I clicked on something and the great driven amp sound I was hearing and tweaking started to like distort and delay. I kind of left it there as I got frustrated at trying to un-frack what ever I did. Maybe I'll give it another shot and re-install it to see if that clears it up but I almost got happy for cheap.

As far as the recorder search goes, I've found a Tascam DP-004 for $40 on CraigsList which would nicely satisfy my "let's get this started" itch. But the suggestion of to just dig in and get something newer has got me holding off waiting for the real deal. I've been researching the new Tascam Model 12 and it really has my attention. Brand new last year (2019), USB 3 interface with full DAW compatibility and small enough to be portable. The $600 sticker has got me on pause because that's about my max budget right now and I'm trying to angle in on another piece of equipment (amp wise) as well. So just holding off for the stars to line up and make it happen.

As always, thanks for looking and your feedback.

Regards,

aldtech
 
Just an update.

ecc83, Dave Mathews - I gave my USB Dual Pre another chance and actually got it working. For about 20-30 minutes then it just got all distorted. I was using Amplitube, I had an old account from a few years back (when I first tried) and it started off great. The latency was almost acceptable and as I was navigating around remembering how to select different amps. Then I clicked on something and the great driven amp sound I was hearing and tweaking started to like distort and delay. I kind of left it there as I got frustrated at trying to un-frack what ever I did. Maybe I'll give it another shot and re-install it to see if that clears it up but I almost got happy for cheap.

As far as the recorder search goes, I've found a Tascam DP-004 for $40 on CraigsList which would nicely satisfy my "let's get this started" itch. But the suggestion of to just dig in and get something newer has got me holding off waiting for the real deal. I've been researching the new Tascam Model 12 and it really has my attention. Brand new last year (2019), USB 3 interface with full DAW compatibility and small enough to be portable. The $600 sticker has got me on pause because that's about my max budget right now and I'm trying to angle in on another piece of equipment (amp wise) as well. So just holding off for the stars to line up and make it happen.

As always, thanks for looking and your feedback.

Regards,

aldtech

IMHO Al' you would do well to wait until you can get the piece of gear you really want other wise you will always be wondering.

I was not aware of the Model 12 but a brief varder tells me it looks very good, Tascam have been in the multi-track AI game a long time with much success. One thing that might deter some punters? No sample rate support above 48kHz but would not bother me one jot.

Tascam are also to be highly commended IMO for including MIDI in and out. AFAIK this is the only such m'track USB mixer that does so? Even the much more expensive digital desk/network units do not have MIDI I/O and when you consider it is implemented on some VERY budget gear, that is a penny pinch too far!

Dave.
 
Just an update.

... I was using Amplitube, I had an old account from a few years back (when I first tried) and it started off great. The latency was almost acceptable and as I was navigating around remembering how to select different amps. Then I clicked on something and the great driven amp sound I was hearing and tweaking started to like distort and delay. I kind of left it there as I got frustrated at trying to un-frack what ever I did. Maybe I'll give it another shot and re-install it to see if that clears it up but I almost got happy for cheap....

aldtech

I'm also using Amplitube and sometimes get lost switching between amps because, except for one, the amp head selection windows are not uniformly placed. They're positioned differently with each selection and sometimes I get in a hurry and hit the wrong button and then... poof! ... I'm off somewhere with the wrong sound and it takes me a minute to reset it.
 
Just an update.

After spending the past 3 months looking and looking and looking, I have found my toy. There were so many near misses. For example, a DP-008EX for $100, a DP-03SD for $200, A Zoom R8 for $200. All gone before I could get an offer in. There was a DP-02CD going for $50 but that just disappeared today and there still is a DP-008 going for $125 that is just 2 towns over from me. But I got lucky, a guy I work with (who was the whole reason I got started on this recorder chase in the first place) decided to go full DAW and made me an offer I couldn't resist on his Tascam DP-24sd, a very generous price as in low dough for me.

So PorterhouseMusic - I'm following your suggestions right now. I have Phil Tipping's Tascam DP24/32SD Tutorials bookmarked and have started watching them. I've got the TASCAM Forums cued up for joining shortly after this post. But I'm hesitant on the firmware update right now because the previous user has mentioned that he was having issues with recording. Specifically, tracks were getting corrupted and he was having to re-format his SD card frequently after completing 5 or 6 tracks in. So my IT Tech radar is up on that and have built in a money back return agreement with him while I try to determine what the issue is. I'm leaning on the SD card because he was using is a micro SD card inside an adapter which in my research I'm finding that it is not compatible. I've told him that in case he wants to try another card but he says he's moved on.

So I'm looking for a compatible SD card and that is proving to be very frustrating task. The SD card recommendation lists I've found (2) seem to be a bit old because no one has the cards listed in stock and the ones I do find are sold only online for twice the $ I'm seeing newer cards going for at the local retailers. I do have a 16 GB SanDisk card I pulled out from my defunct Canon camera and it (long) formatted in the recorder so I'm hopeful I have something I can work with for now. But until I am sure I have a solid recommended SD card I'm going to wait on the firmware update because I don't want to compound what might be a system issue. I only have a couple of weeks to get that done before I have to keep it or return it.

So once I get a certified SD card and resolve recording past the 5-6 track barrier I will be on my way to recording bliss.

Thanks to all of you that have contributed to this thread, I appreciate your help.



aldtech
 
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