What's the weakest link in this chain for recording my band rehearsals?

pchorman

pchorman

New member
Folks: please give me your opinion on what can be done to improve these steps. I record the band's weekly rehearsals using a Yamaha MT50 4-track (you know, the one that spins the tape faster than normal), SM57s all around (one for me - the rhythm guitar, one on the lead guitar amp, one over the drummer's head, and one for the PA speaker which the voices and bass guitar come through).

When I get home I digitize the recordings on the computer (16 bit stereo, 44.1 KHz sample rate) by feeding the mixed-down signal into a Soundblaster PCI 64V card. Right there I notice the sound quality can take a slight hit. It's not like hearing the analog tape directly, but even the tape leaves more to be desired. I sometimes convert these from wav to mp3.

I'm hoping to achieve decent enough quality for a demo, but I'm usually disappointed with the outcome. I realize that all these elements can be significantly improved, but which, if anything, is the weakest link in the recording chain that I should fix first, without spending a fortune?

A short snippet is attached (I hope) to give you an idea, and keep in mind this represents one of the better recordings. It's portion of the song Rock and Roll by Led Zep. Should I expect much better fidelity?

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
Hmmm. Without hearing it, of course its hard to say whats wrong, but I'd try this to get a better sound.

Mic the kick and the snare with separate mics to get a good drumsound. Line the bass (no mic) and record all these three sources to one track, with the rhytm guitar to a second track.

*OR*

Mix the two drum mics + bass + rhythm guitar to stereo.
For that to be useful, pan the two drum mics slightly to the left and right to give a stereo image on the drums. And maybe pan the guitar. Haveing everything dead center is boring.

Whichever you choose of the above, you now have two tracks, with the rythm section. That means you have two tracks over, and on those you record (preferrably one at a time) the lead guitar and the vocals (which is the most important one, and should have a track by itself).

Record the vocals with a compressor, and put some delay on it when you mix down. And pan the lead guitar opposite of the rythm guitar. :)
 
Im the king of cheapo recording, and if you are looking to track this as a band I dont have much advice....If you are willing to overdub, different story....first get a rough mix of the tune like you are doing now....get that on a different tape machine and feed it to the drummer LOUD into headphones....let him record his parts by himself with the backing track helping him get that live feel....put 57s on the kick, snare, and two overheads....bring that home and mixdown into your computer(if you do a bounce on the MT50 you are bound to your first try because you are bouncing over a track..on computer you can try it til it sounds right...when you have it right, send it back to track 1 on a NEW tape....now let the band go at it with bass on 2 guitars on 3 and 4......go thru the same process again described above....remember bring it back to a new tape....now you have everthing except vocals and 3 free tracks.....you could do a lead and two tracks of backgrounds...or a guitar overdub...a keyboard...anything.....

Also I hate to disagree with regebro, but Id stay mono with 4 track....
 
Good tips and thank you. I'm hoping to get acceptable results from singles takes, without bouncing tracks. The compression on vocals will defenitely help as I've had problems keeping the singer at a decent volume without occasionally overmodulating when he really wails.

I have a couple more questions:
What's the difference between reverb and delay and why was delay recommended over reverb?

How far back should I mic the speakers? I've experimented with 6" to several feet of separation, but I notice many people push those mics right up to the grill with the amps blasting away. These mics are sensitive enough to pick up light conversation; why are they often driven so dammed hard? Should I get in closer for this so-called "proximity effect"?

thanks again
 
The closer the mics are to the speakers, the less bleed from other instruments you'll have. Better seperation = more control in the mix....
Some mics have more proximity effect than others, and as you learn more about the characteristics of each mic you own, you'll be able to use this knowledge to your advantage.
But...generally speaking...people close mic amps for seperation purposes....
Andy
 
well,

i suck at recoring, but I'd highly recommend recording straight to computer from a mixing program like Cubase5, Protools, N-Track. Really works, and is easy. You can get demos to do it with for free online, heck, they have cracks too. if you have problems email me.
 
Delay-ay-ay-ay is a repeating of the signal.
Reverrrrb is a "smooth" room sound. Like you get in a church.

Reverb gives you a "room" feeling, but can make the signal muddy. It's hard to use correctly. Delay is easier, and I think it works better on song anyway.

The further away from the sound source you have the mics, the more it will pick up of he echoes in the room. It tends to make things sound boxy and tinny (unless you have a good room). So mic things as close as possible.

Also, note that if you record directly to your computre, not only do you need to take your computer to your rehersal room, you also can only record two channels at at time, and you need a mixer to record more than two sources at once.

Gidge: You aint disagreeing. I just put up two alternative routes. One is mono one is stereo.
 
Re: well,

musicsdarkangel said:
i suck at recoring, but I'd highly recommend recording straight to computer from a mixing program like Cubase5, Protools, N-Track. Really works, and is easy. You can get demos to do it with for free online, heck, they have cracks too. if you have problems email me.
Click to expand...

I have a real problem with people advocating theft and copyright infringement (cracks)...I think that if someone takes the time to write a program, and you need that program, then they deserve to be compensated for it...
It's the same as posting MP3's for download WITHOUT the artists permission...it's theft, and it's not right.
After all, if you worked hard for a company, and never got paid for your work, you wouldn't like it...would you ? Now if YOU CHOSE to work for free, that'd be a different matter....but these companies aren't giving away their programs....why should they? They've got families to feed, and have worked hard writing these programs (or songs, or whatever...)...give them a bit of respect, and do the right thing....BUY THE PROGRAM !

Andy
 
fvmworigthjgdskvjw

Any time you pass analog to digital or vice versa, you will lose something. When you are tracking to analog, be sure to record hot, get in the red a little, if not alot, then when you go to digital, make sure you are using maximum input into the computer.
You may be better off to mic the kit with at least mics, like someone else said, and then bring it to computer, and maybe just do the vocals on an overdub, since you are wanting to record an actual practice.
www.digidesign.com get ProTools Free, its free, and its ProTools. From there you will be able to maximize your volume, get your compression on, and maybe eq a little.
Paul
 
dude

I don't crack stuff, but I have a friend who is really poor, and baught CubasisVST. He really hated it, and couldn't even get it to work, so he burned Cubase. Nothin wrong with that in my mind. k later.Some people just aren't rich.
 
i'm not trying to offend you....i'm stating my opinion....
my opinion is that your either friend didn't properly research cubase BEFORE purchasing it, or he/she didn't bother to ask questions, read forums, etc., AFTER buying it. either way, does it make it right to suggest that someone steals it...?
somewhere along the line, he/she got bad advice....that's not the programmers fault....tens of thousands of people use cubase and are quite happy with the results they achieve....it obviously wasn't right for your friend. oh well...live and learn....that's what life is about....learning from your mistakes. but if i go out and buy a camaro, and hate it...should i go steal a different car just to see if i like it better ?
anyway, have a nice night...
andy
 
musicdarkangel, i'll be happy to offend you

i'm one of those programmer guys and my 6-figure salary depends on people BUYING not hacking/cracking software applications. what your friend did was like someone coming for studio time, and then after you suffer through recording and mixing their god aweful song they turn around and decide not to pay you because they don't like the song. you didn't write the song they did.

one day, when your band gets it's act together and gets a record deal, and then the 1 song you have that's a hit is distributed on some NAPSTERish sight for free and you lose thousands of dollars in revenue, you'll change your tune about people who are too poor to purchase.

OK, i'm off my soapbox now.
 
Re: musicdarkangel, i'll be happy to offend you

crosstudio said:
i'm one of those programmer guys and my 6-figure salary depends on people BUYING not hacking/cracking software applications. what your friend did was like someone coming for studio time, and then after you suffer through recording and mixing their god aweful song they turn around and decide not to pay you because they don't like the song. you didn't write the song they did.

one day, when your band gets it's act together and gets a record deal, and then the 1 song you have that's a hit is distributed on some NAPSTERish sight for free and you lose thousands of dollars in revenue, you'll change your tune about people who are too poor to purchase.

OK, i'm off my soapbox now.
Click to expand...


feel free to jump up on your soapbox anytime...i'm right there with you. people just don't look at the big picture...you brought up napster, and that's a great example of "publicly accepted theft"...in the greater scheme of things, those unauthorized dowloads really "do" hurt the artist. if someone like elliott smith has 50,000 people download his albums, that's 50,000 less albums he's sold...which means that he will have a hard time recouping the money to his record company...the record company will then drop him...thus rendering him without a deal, and a way to support himself....and the 50,000 people who "loved" his music enough to download it, won't hear any new music from him...so basically they've killed his career, AND shot themselves in the foot !
as far as software cracks, etc...the people programming and creating these programs work hard at learning their craft...they deserve to be paid for their services...
you know, it's funny...10 years ago, your average person couldn't even "hope" to afford a home studio that would give them professional results....now people want to complain about spending a couple hundred dollars to get a good software program...
keep rolling tape...
andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top