Time Troubles

jauslong

New member
last project I was working on, I felt like I had found religion on using a click track. I got a single out that was in perfect time. I had to make some fixes here and there, but I got it done and it sounded good. Problem was, it was pretty robotic sounding. yes, I realize there are people who can play to a click track and sound lively and amazing. As of right now, I'm not one of them.

So, anyway, I started on a new project recently and I recorded a scratch track (its a band, but I play everything, so I had to recording each track separately) without a click track, the idea being that I didnt want it to sound so stiff. I wanted it to flow more.

I added more guitars, I got great sounding vocals, bass, a drum part, etc etc., but I'm really listening to this, and I feel like there are just parts that are really off time. It's a complex guitar part, and I just dont seem to be playing it exactly the same each time around.

I could try to re-record this, with a click, and I guess it would sound clean, but I never wanted it to be that clean in the first place. I want lively. Or, I could try to cut and paste later parts that sound good to cover up what sounds messy. I could do another 10 takes on the guitar party and see if it gets me any closer. Of course, since I have drums and other instruments already, the risk here is that everything is slightly off time, and I have to redo it.

I'm trying to come up with a path forward. Re-do everything? cut and paste? how off time is too off time? Any thoughts or advice is helpful. I use Reaper. Song (which isnt done mixing) is attached. Debating whether to start over and if you think its salvageable.
 

Attachments

  • LANDR-Mean Old World - Austin (12-13-18 Mix).mp3
    7.6 MB · Views: 14
You need to record the drums first, so that everything plays with them. The beat seems to get all messed up into what I think is the first chorus, and the bass is never in time with the drums at that point.
 
Yes . . . there is considerable timing tension in there, which makes it uncomfortable to listen to, even though I like the song.

If a band was playing this track, there would be natural variations in tempo, but that wouldn't matter, because everyone moves together as you go along.

When you are doing everything yourself to a click-free track, you have to try and remember and follow that natural variation, and that is not easy to do.

Working to a click is a way of getting around this, but, as you've discovered, it can lead into robotic territory.

There is another way of working without playing to a rigid time.

Do what you did, i.e. play a guide track without click so that you preserve a natural ebb and flow of tempo.

Then create a tempo map from what you've played. I reckon you'll find Reaper tutorial videos on this, but it involves identifying and selecting a number of bars, then getting Reaper to work out the tempo of these (there is a menu option for this), then move onto another selection of bars.

Once you've gone through the whole song, you can then turn on the metronome and play along with this, knowing that it is speeding up and slowing down as required. That way you can have all thr tracks nicely playing together without the timing tension.

What you do with what you have is another problem. It is possible to stretch and shrink bits to make them sit tighter, but it helps to have something definite to work to.
 
I'd be inclined to start over if you want to figure out how to make this feel like it's really together. I'm not sure what your process is, but it doesn't sound like the drums and bass are really together, and I'd go back and work the heck out of getting that right before you put anything else in. Then you'd at least have something you could start editing tracks to fix up little things. Right now it seems like a lot of different rhythms going on in a couple places.

Don't get me wrong, it's not horrible, but I wouldn't have the patience to try and tighten it up...

You might try recording just a rhythm and vocal scratch to a click, without being completely rigid, then let the drums and bass work off that, but allow them to kind of do their own thing with that going on in their ears. Then, go back and redo the rhythm and vocal using the drums+bass as the foundation. Listen critically as you add tracks and do comping to get takes that aren't going to take a ton of editing at the end. (Everybody's on the beat sometime :))
 
Seens to be a little difficult to listen, some guitar parts are very off tempo, and makes it annoying, at least to my ears. Sorry to say that, I´m nobody, but if you ask for opinion, here´s mine: try to put bass and drum in time (bass drum mostly), and, if there´s so much trouble, simplify the guitars to match tempo and your skills with the metronome, or try hard!! Anyway, beatiful song, when you finish, will be glorious!!
 
I agree that doing the drums first would make for an easier target to hit. With a tempo as slow as that and as sparse as the opening instrumentation, any slight error will be magnified. Just my opinion.
 
Moving forward, I would start with a scratch guitar track. Then play the drums to that. Once you have the drums, play all the other parts to the drums and remove the scratch guitar track.

If you have parts with no drums, keep time on a hi hat or something, so there is something keeping time in that section. Then mute the counts during mixing.
 
If you use the click track how its intended there is no reason it should sound robotic. The trick is to just play along with the click not to the click, as you would a drummer. Better still is to write a drum pattern and use that as a click, replacing the written pattern with a real drummer later. I used to lay with a band that actually played to click live or rather drum loops and samples live, it was never robotic. We had to do this as we used live samples that triggered and a midi fired drum module.

Alan
 
Back
Top