Tascam 2488 MKII and MIDI using Alesis SR-18

bannyisme

New member
Hello all,

I have a general question regarding a drum setup, and would appreciate your help.

Ultimately I would like to get my multitrack and drum machine to align in time, so that I can have greater control (and ease) when changing drum beats and such....

I hope this would help me make more varied drum patterns, rather than recording a pattern continually… or manually entering each drum-wave into the track...

I use a Tascam 2488 MKII and an Alesis sr-18. Both seem like good pieces of kit to me, but MIDI seems incredible complicated, possibly even archaic,

There is some advice out there, but it doesn’t seem to work - I believe I have now exhausted all possibilities, and am in the no-mands-land between two products' customer support...

I wonder if you could give some advice?

I know that the 2488 MKII does import SMF files; perhaps if I create a SMF file, this could act as a template, so that the two machines could integrate?

Your advice would be very much appreciated.

On a side note, I would highly recommend the 2488 MKII, much more so than its rivals (eg, the zoom 16HD, which I have extensively tested).

Thanks

David
 
David,

Simple. Just connect your 2488 and SR-18 with a MIDI cable and set them up to sync via MTC (MIDI Time Code).

Connect a MIDI cable from MIDI Out on the 2488 to the MIDI In on the Alesis.

It's been a while since I used a 2488, but I think you press Menu, select MIDI/Sync, and there should be an on-screen menu where you can select the sync type as "MTC Master".

On the SR-18, go to the System Setup, scroll to page 5, and change the "Clock In" value to "On".

Once that is set, the SR-18 should play back in time when you use the transport controls on the 2488. Keep in mind that MTC may take a measure or two to "sync up", meaning that if you're doing this, it may take that amount of time before the SR-18 starts playing back.
 
Hello,

Thanks for the reply.

I tried it, but unfortunately with no luck - using the setup, the Alesis didn't start - I tried fiddling with lots of settings, but with no luck :(


If this helps, the exact settings on the Tascam are below (from the most pertinent options - incredible how complex they made it):

Synch Menu
Source: internal / external
Frameset: 30 (and other options which I presume not to mess with)
Offset: 0 (and other options which I presume not to mess with)
Generator: Off/MTC/Clocl

Metronome menu
Mode: free/ Rec/ Red+play
Output: internal/MIDI

Remote menu
mode: off/Master/Slave
Device ID: All / 100....

Any thoughts at all?

The lead is ok - when i go out from the Alesis, into the Tascam, the MIDI light on the Tascam flckers - exciting, but still not quite there!

Thanks again,

Dave
 
hello,

Thanks for the help, but I think I have decided to abandon MIDI after all.

I will make a new post regarding drum recording in general.

cheers

dave
 
Don't give up!!

There must be something simple that we're overlooking. From what you've described, it sounds like you have it set up correctly.

Understand what MIDI is doing in your situation. MIDI can sync machines in two ways: MMC (MIDI Machine Control) and MTC (MIDI Time Code).

MMC is like remote control for a MIDI device. The master device sends control messages like play, stop, rewind, etc. and the receiving device responds. In order for this to work, the receiving device is "slaved" to the other... meaning that only the master device can initiate the control.

MTC is a master MIDI time clock. The master device sends exact time code out via MIDI. The time code includes information about what bar, beat, and frame the master machine is at, and all other machines follow this timing. The 20, 25, 30d, and 30nd frame rates you referenced earlier define how many frames per second the master machine is counting (MTC 25 simply means 25 frames per second).

Your SR-18 has an internal midi clock. What we're attempting to do is to disable that clock and ask the SR-18 to watch the 2488's clock instead.

Sorry for the dissertation, but I thought a little info on what's going on behind the scenes might help you troubleshoot the problem. You want the 2488 to be set up as MTC master and speaking at the same tempo and frame rate as the SR-18. Then you want the SR-18 to be set to receive external MIDI clocking info and play in sync.
 
hello,

Again, cheers for the reply and suggestions.

I'm really not sure if it's working - clicking play on one never plays the other. Sometimes I click play sequentially and think they are aligned - then I thought to myself perhaps not more so if I actually click record and play at the same time..... After analysis, they seemed slightly out. Since I can correct this after recording anyway, I did wonder if it is worth it.

Ultimately, the conundrum for someone with my setup is to get intelligent-sounding drums, where each drum is recorded separately, in time. a friend of mine does this successfully by manually cutting and pasting each drum - each drum takes around 4 hours to get right; time consuming, potentially mentally testing too...

I hopes that MIDI would help this. What do you think? I really struggle with the drums!!

cheers

dave
 
Same Problem :(

Don't give up!!

There must be something simple that we're overlooking. From what you've described, it sounds like you have it set up correctly.

Understand what MIDI is doing in your situation. MIDI can sync machines in two ways: MMC (MIDI Machine Control) and MTC (MIDI Time Code).

MMC is like remote control for a MIDI device. The master device sends control messages like play, stop, rewind, etc. and the receiving device responds. In order for this to work, the receiving device is "slaved" to the other... meaning that only the master device can initiate the control.

MTC is a master MIDI time clock. The master device sends exact time code out via MIDI. The time code includes information about what bar, beat, and frame the master machine is at, and all other machines follow this timing. The 20, 25, 30d, and 30nd frame rates you referenced earlier define how many frames per second the master machine is counting (MTC 25 simply means 25 frames per second).

Your SR-18 has an internal midi clock. What we're attempting to do is to disable that clock and ask the SR-18 to watch the 2488's clock instead.

Sorry for the dissertation, but I thought a little info on what's going on behind the scenes might help you troubleshoot the problem. You want the 2488 to be set up as MTC master and speaking at the same tempo and frame rate as the SR-18. Then you want the SR-18 to be set to receive external MIDI clocking info and play in sync.

Hi KineticSound, Hi bannyisme,

guess what? I'm having quite the similar problem. Only difference seems to be, that I use the Tascam DP-02cf. I can do whatever I want , stick as close as can be to the manuals there is no way to control the SR-18 with my Tascam. I was also getting in contact with the Tascam Support but they didn't reply yet. There is hardly any hint in the internet on how to handle this. I've found one posting of someone who was speaking of a potential compatibility problem between the DP-02cf and the SR-18. But is this something that can happen with midi? :confused:
@KineticSound: I appreciate your suggestions above. Unfortunately I more or less a novice with midi, so I tried your suggestions but still didn't make it run. The thing i fear is, that it is only a tiny little thing that I do wrong. The fact that bannyisme states similar probs however makes be suspecting that there is indeed sort of a prob...What dreadfull work is awaiting me if the midi won't work.. :(

If you have any idea what I might do wrong I'd certainly appreciate it. If Tascam support will give me a reply I keep you posted.
Thanks & Best!
Sympathisant
 
I've detailed the same problem on a few other forums but I don't think I've mentioned it here so...

I can sync an SR16 to either of my 2488s or my old 788. I can sync my SR18 to an SR-16. I can't sync the SR18 to the 2488. I've spoken to Alesis tech support in the UK and the couldn't figure it out but I have deduced that the problem is the SR18's optocoupler requires more current than the Tascam's can supply through the MIDI cable. This isn't something a firmware upgrade in either machine is going to fix but you can work around it by going through another device (such as and SR16).

One other possibility is to connect the devices via a Thru box such as http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm since though I haven't tried this since I have also discovered a number of other issues with the SR18 (no support for Song Position Pointer and the need to remember to press Save else lose everything to mention just two).

Basically, I am sorry to report that the SR-18 isn't really up to the job it was designed for.
 
I've detailed the same problem on a few other forums but I don't think I've mentioned it here so...

I can sync an SR16 to either of my 2488s or my old 788. I can sync my SR18 to an SR-16. I can't sync the SR18 to the 2488. I've spoken to Alesis tech support in the UK and the couldn't figure it out but I have deduced that the problem is the SR18's optocoupler requires more current than the Tascam's can supply through the MIDI cable. This isn't something a firmware upgrade in either machine is going to fix but you can work around it by going through another device (such as and SR16).

One other possibility is to connect the devices via a Thru box such as http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm since though I haven't tried this since I have also discovered a number of other issues with the SR18 (no support for Song Position Pointer and the need to remember to press Save else lose everything to mention just two).

Basically, I am sorry to report that the SR-18 isn't really up to the job it was designed for.

Hey Shockingcandy,

thanks a lot for your feedback! It is good to know that this problem isn't a unique one..I really appreciate your hint with the thru-boxa also. Most likely I will have to go this way...
It's a pain in the ass that it doesn't work, really. I also agree with your other comments on the SR-18. But next to it, it's a fine peace, wouldn't there be so many probs.Once my midi runs, I'll keep you guys updated!
Cheers
Sympathisant
 
Yes, please do keep us updated - I really wanted the SR-18 to work because the SR-16 has been such a joy to use compared to other drum machines. Really all I wanted was an SR-16 mkII with an updated sound set!
 
Yes, please do keep us updated - I really wanted the SR-18 to work because the SR-16 has been such a joy to use compared to other drum machines. Really all I wanted was an SR-16 mkII with an updated sound set!

Hi there again,

I've tried now to fix the issue with a midi thru box but it didn't help unfortunately. Interestingly the LED didn't lit up when I connected the Midi out of the Tascam DP 02 - CF to the Midi In of the Midi Solutions Thru Box and then the whole setup towards my Alesis SR-18. I start to wonder if the whole problem is rather due to the the Midi out of my Tascam DP 02-CF. Probably less than required power supply? Wouldn't that be a pain in the ass? In this case my SR-18 wouldn't even be to blame. But what to do now? Spend some more money and purchase http://www.midisolutions.com/prodpwr.htm? If I'd be sure it'll work out then I'd certainly do so, but how can I?

Tascam support btw. didn't respond to my mail. I think I rather buy me another musical device with midi in/out and check first. Any other idea available guys? Any hint is highly appreciated! Cheers
Sympathisant
 
I bought a Tascam 2488 Neo and then just recently an SR-18. I can confirm that the SR-18 does not work with the Tascam, which is frankly bizarre to me. I went Tascam>Korg Electribe>SR-18 in order to get MIDI Sync.

I think I used the MIDI In and Out on the Electribe (didn't use the MIDI thru). Anyway I worked around it but it's a very strange situation.
 
I've detailed the same problem on a few other forums but I don't think I've mentioned it here so...

I can sync an SR16 to either of my 2488s or my old 788. I can sync my SR18 to an SR-16. I can't sync the SR18 to the 2488. I've spoken to Alesis tech support in the UK and the couldn't figure it out but I have deduced that the problem is the SR18's optocoupler requires more current than the Tascam's can supply through the MIDI cable. This isn't something a firmware upgrade in either machine is going to fix but you can work around it by going through another device (such as and SR16).

One other possibility is to connect the devices via a Thru box such as http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm since though I haven't tried this since I have also discovered a number of other issues with the SR18 (no support for Song Position Pointer and the need to remember to press Save else lose everything to mention just two).

Basically, I am sorry to report that the SR-18 isn't really up to the job it was designed for.

Hi guys,

Trying to get to the core of the problem it actually seems to be a problem with the midi out of the Tascam DP-02CF. Is there anybody who can confirm to have successfully used the Midi Out of the DP-02-CF at all ? Starting to doubt this thing works at all. Question of lacking power supply?

Cheers
Sympathisant
 
Hello Every One,

I am new to the forum and I have done a forum search on this topic as I have just tried to sync a TASCAM DP 02 and an SR18.

If the problems detailed in the thread are true, are any of the solutions true.

I know this is an old thread but if anyone has solved this problem I'd appreciate knowing how.

Thanks,
Mark
 
OK….Just to close off this question I had for all who might care….

I put “in line” an old Alesis Midiverb I had. I ran the MIDI out from the Tascam DP02 (Master) to the Midiverb (Thru) and then to the Alesis SR18 (Slave). Set all clock and control just like the documentation said to do and it worked.

So… I go to believe that the output current for the Tascam DP02 is not sufficient to drive the Alesis SR18 and the Midiverb in line boosted the signal enough to trigger the Alesis.

For what it is worth.
Mark
 
Using a Midiverb to overcome this problem

I concur with this post. Had the same problem as everyone else in this case with 2488neo--could't get SR-18 to sync with the 2488. So I bought a Midiverb II on E-bay for $30 specifically to try this and it worked.

Notes:
1. Midi cable out of 2488 and into the midiverb II.

2. Midi cable out of midiverb II and into Sr18

3. Settings for Midiverb: Doesn't seem to matter what you do to the Midiverb II as far as settings, etc. Seems to work no matter what (my kind of solution!!).

4. Settings for 2488: Menu-->Sync--> Source = internal, frame type 30, Offset 00, Generator = "clock". Don't mess with the Metronome or SMF player.

5 Settings for SR18: In system setup, put 'Clock in' to the 'On' position. Nothing else seems to matter.

I'm running regular unbalanced cables out of the SR18 and back into channels on the 2488. No need to 'record' them per se as the SR18 will play back as a slave to the 2488. So you saved yourself at least 2 tracks. The other benefit of course is having perfect sync between your drums and the rest of your tracks, no guessing or 'punching'. Just find a cheap Midiverb!
 
So does this apply to the sr-16 as well ? I would like to use the click of the neo for 8 counts and then have the sr-16 start. Any suggestions ? thanks, Tom
 
Well this thread is pretty old now and I don't own any of this gear anymore but the SR16 certainly worked fine with the 2488 I had using MIDI CLOCK
 
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