Summing with outboard pres

[Adam P]

This is sort of a multi-faceted question, so please bear with me.

I'm slowly speculating out my list of "hey, I want that" items, and have decided that when I get a new mixing board I will probably go with either a Soundcraft M series or an Allen & Heath MixWizard. I've also read a lot concerning dynamic mics and their "desire" to be coupled with a good pre to really bring out their character. With this in mind, I'm also thinking about something like an RNP or a Sytek MPX-4 (I want to have multiple channels of outboard available...2 is great, 4 is even better). I like to use multiple mics on snare, kick, and guitar amps, but I currently only have 8 channels of I/O so I have to use them wisely. I also like to sum them during tracking so its one less thing to think about while mixing. I generally track drums, bass, and scratch guitar simultaneously. So, for example, I would like to use two mics on kick...maybe my ATM25 inside and an LDC a foot or so out front. If I were to use the ATM25 with an outboard pre, and the LDC with a pre on the board, how would I go about summing them into one channel to send to one input on my Layla. Is it as simple as running the output of the preamp into a line input on a channel on the board, or is there another approach that I'm obviously missing somehow. Also, as a sidenote, would an RNP or Sytek even be that much above a SoundCraft or A&H pre, or will it not really show much difference until I step up to the Avalon/Great River/Focusrite/etc level?

Thanks a lot.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Is it as simple as running the output of the preamp into a line input on a channel on the board

That's the way to do it. Just assign both channels to a bus and patch that bus to the soundcard input.

 

[tubesrawsom]

i tried out the a&h at my friends house and i was nuthing but impresed with the sound and the long faders 4 band eq with two sweepable mids i think 6 aux's
the only problem i have with it, is tht it doesnt have any subgroups only two master stereo faders
besides tht i love it
its also great for multitracking cuz it has direct outs on each channel
good luck

 

[Adam P]

Since I usually don't need to sum more than two things at a time, I can just use the L and R channels as my sub groups (it worked just fine on the last recording I did). I would like having both sub groups and direct channel outs, but it doesn't seem like many affordable boards have options for both.

Tex, thanks for the input (no pun intended). I've thought that it could be done that way, but I didn't know if it was unfavorable or anything...adding extra unwanted channel noise or something. You've been one of the most helpful (to me) people on this board...I appreciate it.

 

[noisedude]

the only problem i have with it, is tht it doesnt have any subgroups only two master stereo faders
besides tht i love it
its also great for multitracking cuz it has direct outs on each channel
good luck

I think the lack of subgroups may be a deliberate decision for multitrack recording ... if you have direct outs most people won't need extra mixes.

Allen and Heath are definitely quality ... I've not hard amazing experiences with Soundcraft but that's not necessarily representative!!

 

[Teacher]

go for the sytek...

it was used on Timberlake on the australian version of wheres the luv by BEP

and the price per channel is a lil better then the rnp

 

[StevenLindsey]

The Sytek + RNP combination works great on drums. The RNP is better on kick than the Sytek, IMO...got a better thump, more agressive amp. Plus, it gives you (supposedly ) three different flavors to work with if you have the Burr Browns on 3&4 of the Sytek. ( I say supposedly because I haven't really been able to tell much if any difference on the BB channels, but that may be because of the limitations of my old recorder. Many people say they can hear it and it adds a "thickness" to the signal...I can't verify that. ) Just another opinion -- you lose some mixing flexibility by summing your drum tracks on the way in. What if part of your drum kit, say your snare, isn't sitting well AFTER you've added the rest of your tracks? Rescue is much harder then. Another opinion, FWIW -- I would run my good preamps directly into the recorder without sullying the signal with more paths..keep the signal as clean and original as possible.

Some thoughts.

 

[Adam P]

Thanks for all the input...I appreciate it. All of this stuff is fairly long term, but its good to have a plan laid out, in my opinion.

Just another opinion -- you lose some mixing flexibility by summing your drum tracks on the way in. What if part of your drum kit, say your snare, isn't sitting well AFTER you've added the rest of your tracks? Rescue is much harder then. Another opinion, FWIW -- I would run my good preamps directly into the recorder without sullying the signal with more paths..keep the signal as clean and original as possible.

Some thoughts.

I don't sum drum tracks, per se, but multiple tracks of the same drum (IE top and bottom snare mics, inside and outside kick mics, etc...well, those are really the only two, right now). I agree though that adding more paths to the signal might degrade it some, thats why I was trying to figure out how other people go about summing multiple outboard pres. Thanks for the insight on the different pres, too.