Studio fatigue

spantini

spantini

COO of me, inc.
It's been years since I've done any serious recording.. about 25, and that was all analog tape and MIDI. Today I spent 6 hours tracking a
scratch bass part to make sure it fits the rhythm I retracked last night. Probably tomorrow sometime I'll do a scratch vocal, then a new
bass part to match that. I like to write my bass to follow the vocal melody, so this one will have a few flourishes here and there.

This 6 hours of (mostly) listening back was really fatiguing. I did take 20 minute breaks every 15-20 minutes but still... my butt be wore out.

I haven't even started playing around with EQ & FX yet. Oh, the humanity! :facepalm:

No wonder you studio engineers get $700 an hour.. :p



It's still lots of fun, though ;)
 
What are you monitoring with? That will have a huge amount to do with fatigue. And a really comfy chair helps. :)

For me, 20 min with headphones on leaves my judgment worthless for mixing. I can do maybe 4 hours at lower than 80dB (like that ever happens) with good monitors before everything starts to sound the same and accurate judgment is lost.

I'm in the wrong studio cuz I am not anywhere near $700 an hour... :(

LOL
 
I monitor with headphones only - won't have speakers in the near future. I made a point of not listening too loud, but no idea what dB. When I'm listening for enjoyment I usually crank up the volume, but I know better in this situation. My work surface is 21" high and my "chair" is an ottoman 14" high - no side or back support.

A lot of it is just me diving into the deep end after not being there for many years.
 
I just bought a new chair two months ago to replace the same one I had for about 7 years. The new one forces me to sit straighter and after a couple of days adjusting to it I am finding I'm less fatigued after sitting for 40-50 minutes between breaks. I tend to switch between speakers and phones and even ear buds pretty regularly so I do pretty good on the ear fatigue. I also like to split up my mixing with listening to something else, a commercial track, a mix vid, just to keep it fresh and keep from getting mono focused and losing perspective. The later it get's the less disciplined I am though, so I always have to keep that in mind.
 
spantini said:
I monitor with headphones only...
Click to expand...

Headphones for hours can be rough. I use to do that WAY back, and I used the classic Koss Pro4AA phones, which is a big, heavy headphone compared to a lot of the ones today...but they offer great isolation, and they sound real good. TBH, with their air-filled ear cups and heavy-duty foam at the head piece, they were not uncomfortable...but after a few hours when you took them off, you really notice the weight difference. :D
I still have about 8 pairs of them, which I would only use when tracking with a lot of people...which doesn't happen often.
Otherwise, I use much lighter Fostex phones...though only for tracking. I never use them for mixing, and only rarely have I put them on for some weird/odd issue that I wanted to "zoom in" on with my ears...otherwise I always use my monitors.

I can go about 6-8 hours when I'm editing/comping because I'm not doing critical tone decisions....but yeah, the ears will go "flat" after about an hour or so, and I don't really monitor that loud. You gotta' watch that with phones/buds...it's easy to keep cranking them, plus the sound is being directly "injected" into your ears. There is no "air" between them and your ears to cushion things and allow the sound to breathe.
I also have my monitor volume knob marked...so I can just glance and see if it's where I normally monitor or if I've nudged it a bit, in which case I'll roll it back...but some days you need a little more other days less.

I still get up and walk away every so often (or turn around and spend 20 minutes posting on the internet :facepalm: :p )...but for more critical mixing, I always wait until the next day to make fresh observations, because those first 2-3 passes are the truest...after that, your ears are already use to the sounds, and kinda roll stuff off. I don't listen to other stuff in-between...I just enjoy the silence for 20-30 minutes, get something to eat, etc...and that refreshes the perception when I come back to the mix.
 
jimmys69 said:
Why no speakers?
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I'm currently living in a studio apartment which has no sound insulation. Radio, TV and normal conversation pass easily through
the walls and doors here. Monitor speakers would be the equivalent of a loud explosion. I am, however, actively pursuing another
residence which will permit at least a moderate level of speaker monitoring.
 
[MENTION=174503]spantini[/MENTION]

I get a kick out of your sig line...the definition of "failure" :D

It reminds me of another one...the definition of:
Dilemma - how many ways to fuck-up the same thing...or...how many times to fuck-up the same thing.

Take you pick. :p
 
I was in the apartment situation for several years and though I eventually went with monitors anyway(I figured that if it wasn't late enough to interfere with others sleeping I was ok with medium~ 60-70 db levels. I had a pair of Sony headphones that translated everything but the very low frequencies reasonably well before I got the Tannoy nearfields. I only monitor on headphones and ear buds VERY quietly, I'm listening for what pokes out.
 
miroslav said:
...I get a kick out of your sig line...the definition of "failure" :D

It reminds me of another one...the definition of:
Dilemma - how many ways to fuck-up the same thing...or...how many times to fuck-up the same thing.

Take you pick. :p
Click to expand...

LOL! :p I like that one.

Gtoboy said:
I was in the apartment situation for several years and though I eventually went with monitors anyway(I figured that if it wasn't late enough to interfere with others sleeping I was ok with medium~ 60-70 db levels. I had a pair of Sony headphones that translated everything but the very low frequencies reasonably well before I got the Tannoy nearfields. I only monitor on headphones and ear buds VERY quietly, I'm listening for what pokes out.
Click to expand...

I used to be the sole occupant of a three bedroom apartment using the middle bedroom as a studio. I had a pair of nearfields hooked up to my 688 MIDI Studio and got no complaints when I cranked them during working hours. The rest of the building was predominantly rented to U of MD. students who were usually out, or couldn't hear me due to their own stereos. Ahh.. those were the days...
 
spantini said:
I'm currently living in a studio apartment which has no sound insulation. Radio, TV and normal conversation pass easily through
the walls and doors here. Monitor speakers would be the equivalent of a loud explosion.
Click to expand...

No, no. Can you listen to your television at your apartment? If so, you can handle monitors. Honestly, I think some believe that because they are rather large, they are going to be loud as shit. Well, yes, sure, they can get very loud. But for mixing, you do not need to have it loud at all. At least while actively making decisions about tonality and such. It's def good to crank it a few times to check it's holding up at louder volumes, but really, I do that more in my car than condo. 99% of the time, I'm mixing at a comfortable, easy, television-watching level. Sometimes quieter.
 
It not about volume with monitoring. It about accuracy and translation to other systems.

I have heard some that say they do it on headphones alone, but that is bullshit.

Are you broke?
 
spantini said:
I monitor with headphones only - won't have speakers in the near future. I made a point of not listening too loud, but no idea what dB. When I'm listening for enjoyment I usually crank up the volume, but I know better in this situation. My work surface is 21" high and my "chair" is an ottoman 14" high - no side or back support.

A lot of it is just me diving into the deep end after not being there for many years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that all would contribute to fatigue - 6 hours like that, I wouldn't be able to walk the next day! When my last desk chair started wearing out, I bought a 'gaming chair' on amazon- better price than any comparable chair from Staples. The headrest area is narrower then the full chair width, so there are no reflections off it to my ears.
I never do anything but quick 'level mixing' when doing a long tracking session - more for ease of further instrument/vocal tracking than anything else. I never start doing the 'real' mixing the same day, my ears are already fatigued, I'll do judgements on which takes sound the best, but won't do anything more.

I'd agree with others - get some monitors, keep the volume low, and don't worry about neighbors at the low levels. You can't get a good idea of what your stereo field is like with headphones.
 
andrushkiwt said:
No, no. Can you listen to your television at your apartment? If so, you can handle monitors... But for mixing,
you do not need to have it loud at all.... I'm mixing at a comfortable, easy, television-watching level. Sometimes quieter.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid even the easy, tele-watching levels migrate easily to the neighbors here. Actually, I could probably get away with those levels just
because they're tolerated during daytime hours.

jimmys69 said:
It not about volume with monitoring. It about accuracy and translation to other systems.
...
Are you broke?
Click to expand...

Pert' near at this point. I've blown my music budget and then some for this year. I'm not in dire straights financially, just music gear-wise for the year.

mjbphotos said:
Yeah, that all would contribute to fatigue - 6 hours like that... I'd agree with others - get some monitors, keep the volume
low, and don't worry about neighbors at the low levels. You can't get a good idea of what your stereo field is like with headphones.
Click to expand...

By the time I can fit them into next year's budget I'll, hopefully, be in a larger, quieter apartment.

_____________________

Most, if not all, residents here have large, flat-screen TVs. Mine is medium at 32" and I've actually done some rudimentary sound checks from apartment to apartment, and in the hallways. When my TV is at volume level(s) I'm comfortable with (16-18), it can be heard next door, but not in the hallway. At level 20 it hits the hallway. These aren't loud, just the minimum levels when they're detected. I would guess monitors at a workable low level might be in that range, especially as I'd be pretty much right in front of them so to speak.
 
I have some decent powered Event TR8's sitting around. Way better than headphones. Shipping will be the biggest cost as they are not lightweight.

Bidding war to guys using headphones starts now. First bid $10. :)
 
That's a sweet deal, Jimmy! Even if they were free I couldn't pay the shipping - a rough calculation from your loc to mine puts it at $70-$80.

The rest of you please jump on this..

Thanks, again! :thumbs up:
 
By the way, you do realize that I know where you live Bigotry right? Dumbass... LOL!

This is kind of fun watching you explode...And here I am offering basically free monitors to a member. What the hell is wrong with you?
 
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