The sound of the piano

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
When you hear a piano in a song {any song of any era} can you tell whether the piano part is played on a grand, baby grand or upright piano ?
And have you ever heard piano sounds so authentic {on modules, VSTis, synths or stage pianos} that you couldn't tell that it wasn't an acoustic piano ?
 
When you hear a piano in a song {any song of any era} can you tell whether the piano part is played on a grand, baby grand or upright piano ?

It depends on the nature of the song. However, when the piano is part of a broader arrangement, I can't tell what type of piano it is.

And have you ever heard piano sounds so authentic {on modules, VSTis, synths or stage pianos} that you couldn't tell that it wasn't an acoustic piano ?
Yes. Lots.
 
If the piano is solo'd or close to solo'd I can tell between grand and upright usually, but not between baby grand and grand.

Yes, VSTis are amazing nowadays. The default upright on my ROLAND HP630 is amazing. When I play it, if I shut my eyes, I feel like it's 40 years ago and I'm playing the old family upright in my parents basement.

I live in a townhouse with shared walls. I cry myself to sleep every night not being able to record my acoustic drum kit, but with the progress of piano VSTi's, I have no desire to mic an acoustic piano every again. Maybe for the right project I would.
 
We record lots of classical solo piano. We use a Yamaha C3, in a less than ideal space. to make editing easier we did one project using Pianoteq 4. We are now on 6. Ironically, as lots of tracks are similar, blind listening makes identifying which is which far, far too random.

Re: the types, the differences, and this applies to sampled ones too, is that they all respond differently to capture by mics. Generally the bigger grands have a much bigger sound. The strings are longer, giving a sort of resonance to the thicker strings, and the multiple higher strings have more 'note' to them, compared to the upright which is more of a percussive sound and less 'note'. Uprights often record badly because the mechanism is in the way of string output from the playing side and the rear soundboard is often up against a wall. The mid size grands sound a bit lacking on full blown concerto works, but record very nicely and have a more bendable sound. If you have three pianos of the different types in a big room, the two grands will be very close. The upright might sound similar but as it has a different action, that responds differently with some music you'd spot it from the way it produces the sound, not really the sound itself. Two notes in quick succession are quite different on grands to uprights. They've tried for years to solve this, but the effect of gravity on vertical vs horizontal hammers is still beating them I think.
 
Like some have said...if I can hear the individual piano tracks that are more than say, just R&R chords getting pounded... :D...yeah, I can tell the difference.

In a busy mix with more subtle parts, not as much if I'm listening to someone else's stuff...but when I use sims or electric pianos in my own projects, and I'm looking for a real acoustic piano sound...I can hear it then too, it actually bugs me sometimes. No matter how much I try to mask it in the mix, I can tell it's not an acoustic piano sound, if that's what I wanted. Mostly it's the higher octaves and the tails.

I've tried a bunchi of sims and samples, electric pianos, and I've had an upright piano in the studio for years...and with each new songs recording that needed a piano, I would end up going through them to find which had the most authentic sound in the mix. I liked my upright, though it never had that really pure tone, and always a PITA to have to tune for recordings.

I know have a small grand in my new studio that has that pure tone sound only a grand can do, and I look forward to recording it...but I may still end up with some sim/sampled piano on some things, because again...sometimes it's easier, and no tuning needed if I'm in a hurry.
I even got another electric piano...since my old Kurzweil was having issues with some of the keys, and I got tired of fixing it...but it had a couple of pretty good piano sample. Now I have a Yamaha, and it's pretty good...but I haven't really taken the time yet to sit and compare the tones to my other choices, or to the grand piano.

There are also times when you don't want the big grand piano sound...like when you're banging R&R chords...:)...it can be too much for a mix, and an electric might just sound better. I've got a decent piano library from UVI...and I also have all the Toontrack keyboard stuff...so plenty of choices.
 
Its funny that you mention this. About 3 months ago, our church took out the grand piano that had been there for years. and replaced it with an upright. With the covid stuff going on, they took the opportunity to revamp benches and the floor. Instead they were doing Youtube services. I could tell that the piano had changed on the Youtube video, without even seeing it. It just sounded different. About 3 weeks ago, they brought back the grand, and presto! The sound returned. Same pianist, doing the same songs.

I actually didn't think I would notice a difference, but it was obvious to me. That's just two pianos, so there may be other factors at work. It might be possible to pick out two that sound very close. For me it was like the difference between a nice dreadnought acoustic guitar and an OM sized acoustic.
 
In a current project I have a singer in the UK but her pianist is in Boston, USA, as she cannot fly back to the UK for health reasons. She has a very nice upright and it records really badly in her room. We used video to be able to set up the recording and nothing she's doing is wrong, but it just sounds compromised. My wife wants a piano for home, but no space for a grand, and frankly is just don't want an upright. Logically I should, but I can't see the point in an instrument that only sounds nice to the player. That seems to be the problem, they just never sound right recorded.
 
When you hear a piano in a song {any song of any era} can you tell whether the piano part is played on a grand, baby grand or upright piano ?

Grand vs baby..probably not.
Grand vs upright? Most likely. Often the difference is quite obvious.

And have you ever heard piano sounds so authentic {on modules, VSTis, synths or stage pianos} that you couldn't tell that it wasn't an acoustic piano ?

Yes. Some of the virtual instruments out there are incredible!

In a current project I have a singer in the UK but her pianist is in Boston, USA, as she cannot fly back to the UK for health reasons. She has a very nice upright and it records really badly in her room. We used video to be able to set up the recording and nothing she's doing is wrong, but it just sounds compromised. My wife wants a piano for home, but no space for a grand, and frankly is just don't want an upright. Logically I should, but I can't see the point in an instrument that only sounds nice to the player. That seems to be the problem, they just never sound right recorded.

I think an upright can be a lot harder to record well but it's still worth trying.
There's a tendency to get very close and often an assumption that the microphones have to be in, or very close to, the lid.

A grand wants to project and fill the room - An upright is a box with a little gap at the top. Often you'll see people (with the room) removing rear panelling or front panelling (at your knees) then setting up microphones quite far back.
I guess we all know the difference between miking an acoustic guitar at inches, or several feet. Inches can sound quite unnatural and leave you wondering why it sounds great in the room and crap on the record.
Same applies.
 
When you hear a piano in a song {any song of any era} can you tell whether the piano part is played on a grand, baby grand or upright piano ?
And have you ever heard piano sounds so authentic {on modules, VSTis, synths or stage pianos} that you couldn't tell that it wasn't an acoustic piano ?

I spend a lot of time listening to recordings critically to understand mixing and arranging as best i can and IME VI's and samples sound way cleaner than actual recorded piano in a pop or rock context. Unless it's a solo piano bit i find that i have to "mess" with VI's quite a bit to get it to sound like i want. As has been pointed out it is almost always quite easy to pick out the difference between upright and grand. I personally have been loving the electric piano emulations that have come out in the last few years.
 
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