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Thread: Does a Mixer change audio tone quality?

  1. #11
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    It's the mic.
    Jay Walsh
    Farview Recording. I am also the forum spokesmodel for Terasyne Amplification

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    "I will buy a condensor mic like the SM7B or maybe a Heil PR40 or even a rode nt1-a depending on how much money I have left in the kitty and keep the DBX2896 as it has a okay noise gate, de-esser and compressor for Twitch. I can flog the Zoom UAC2 and Rode Procaster and the money raised can go towards funding the upgrade."

    Whoa there Twirly! Firstly, the SM7b is a DYNAMIC mic and a damn good one. If you need a mixer in the system add a Cloudlifter to amp up the mic as that will allow the mixer pre to be backed off by some 25dB with a consequent reduction in distortion of an order.

    Are you driving the mixer's main outs into the Zoom? If so you might like to try putting it an FX send/return instead? (I bet 'The mane' is doing that!)

    Tis all a bit of a shame really because the UAC-2 is noted to have truly excellent mic amplifiers.

    Dave.
    Whoops , I remember when I was researching for mics that Dynamic ones were the ones suitable for bedroom Twitch broadcasting, but yeah I don't want condensors.

    I've reduced the gain output from my DBX all the way down -30db and increased the gain on the UAC2 as it seemed the logical thing to do.

    Are you driving the mixer's main outs into the Zoom? If so you might like to try putting it an FX send/return instead? (I bet 'The mane' is doing that!)
    I don't have a mixer and don't quite understand what you wrote (too technical lol) but atm my chain is:

    Procaster > Triton fethead > DBX286S > UAC-2 > PC

    When I do upgrade I need to be 100% sure that the USB mixer interface I choose (allen heath zed 10fx or yamaha mg10xu seem to be popular choices) has a decent warm sound character preamp or if I should just add the UAC2 into the chain.

    Should I have a setup like:

    1. SM7B > Triton fethead > DBX286S > Mixer > PC or
    2. SM7B > Triton fethead > DBX286S > Mixer > UAC-2 > PC

    Cheers

  3. #13
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    Don't turn down the output only to turn up the input 9f something else.

    Here is what is supposed to happen:

    Mic into preamp. Preamp gain is set so that the mic signal is brought up to line level.

    Line level out of the preamp into the compressor. The threshold of the compressor is set so you get the amount of reduction you want. The compressor output (or makeup gain) should be set to bring the output back up to line level. (Compressors make the signal quieter)

    The idea behind the output level on any piece of hardware is to make up for any gain changes that happened in that unit. The level between each piece of equipment should be line level. (0dbVU)
    Jay Walsh
    Farview Recording. I am also the forum spokesmodel for Terasyne Amplification

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  5. #14
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    2. SM7B > Triton fethead > DBX286S > Mixer > UAC-2 > PC

    That ^ is the better bet IF(!) you really need a mixer and if you do there are few better than the ZEDs. However, good though the A&H USB converter is I have it on good authority that the Zoom UAC-2 is better, better in fact than any USB AI at the price.

    Take note of Jays comments re gain staging. Especially watch the level from mixer to AI since the mixer will put out +22dBu or more and I doubt the Zoom can handle that and to be fair no other AI in that range could either, nor do they need to.

    Sorry about the boggling! I did not think I was getting PARTICULARLY technical? I am in fact only a 'bit' sorry! This IS a technical hobby/job. You need the jargon! You can ALWAYS ask and I have plenty of time to break things down.

    Dave.

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  7. #15
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    The ZED10fx might be OK. My needs are different, but I recently shopped the low end. I thought the basic Soundcraft looked pretty good. Then we get into more this and that which is still the same old sound. And the we start seeing better quality again with less channels and features. Make a quick evaluation of that range and see if you want to go there.

    Thomann has vocals of the re320 up;
    https://www.thomann.de/gb/ev_re320.htm

    With dynamic, you may want to consider a stand alone MIC preamp going line in to a(any old) mixer;
    https://www.thomann.de/gb/golden_age..._pre_73_jr.htm

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farview View Post
    Don't turn down the output only to turn up the input 9f something else.

    Here is what is supposed to happen:

    Mic into preamp. Preamp gain is set so that the mic signal is brought up to line level.

    Line level out of the preamp into the compressor. The threshold of the compressor is set so you get the amount of reduction you want. The compressor output (or makeup gain) should be set to bring the output back up to line level. (Compressors make the signal quieter)

    The idea behind the output level on any piece of hardware is to make up for any gain changes that happened in that unit. The level between each piece of equipment should be line level. (0dbVU)
    Nice explanation thanks.

    I was under the impression if the UAC-2 has the better pre-amp that I should reduce the gain output from the 286S and let the better pre-amp in the UAC2 increase the gain even if it is the last peice of hardware in the link. It's what the chap in the clip also did as his output gain was at around -20
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/oy3rakppd9...mage6.jpg?dl=0

    The problem I've had is that I went into this blind not knowing what is best for my budget or how to set things up. I mainly relied on Youtube and didn't know the science behind anything and why things need to be done in a particular or ideal order.


    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    2. SM7B > Triton fethead > DBX286S > Mixer > UAC-2 > PC

    That ^ is the better bet IF(!) you really need a mixer and if you do there are few better than the ZEDs. However, good though the A&H USB converter is I have it on good authority that the Zoom UAC-2 is better, better in fact than any USB AI at the price.

    Take note of Jays comments re gain staging. Especially watch the level from mixer to AI since the mixer will put out +22dBu or more and I doubt the Zoom can handle that and to be fair no other AI in that range could either, nor do they need to.

    Sorry about the boggling! I did not think I was getting PARTICULARLY technical? I am in fact only a 'bit' sorry! This IS a technical hobby/job. You need the jargon! You can ALWAYS ask and I have plenty of time to break things down.

    Dave.
    I'd love to learn as it will allow me in the future to make better decisions like what to buy or why I need to buy certain things. For example the chap in the Twicth clip advised me to ditch my UAC2 and use a USB Mixer as adding more things in the chain will degrade and add noise to my mic thus changing the sound signature.

    If I can keep my UAC2 and there is no negative impact then I will. What would you suggest is better than the A&H at that price range?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Twirly; 04-12-2017 at 15:13.

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    The ZED10with effects is at a nice price point in the US. If I didn't have stuff to mix, I might have that. You are, actually, mixing stuff, right : ) MIC1, MIC2, Commercial 1, Commercial 2, Farm Report, etc..

  11. #18
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    For the dbx 286s this guide recommended setting output gain to -30db (all the way down ) if connecting to a mic input.

    286s_new_look-jpg

    http://www.bswusa.com/BSWUSAImages/P...s_new_look.JPG

    Since the output is going into my uac2 mic input should I follow it's advise as you guys have mentioned the output should be at 0?

    Thanks

  12. #19
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    Well, a MIC input isn't a combo jack and often there is additional gain structure. So take their advice and see if you need to adjust it upwards

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by garww View Post
    Well, a MIC input isn't a combo jack and often there is additional gain structure. So take their advice and see if you need to adjust it upwards
    yeah I also found another article which explains the reason why the gain offset is reduced.

    dbx 286s: Beyond The Basics … – produceNewMedia

    Output Gain Compensation

    Gain Compensation is an integral part of Audio Compression. It is most commonly used to offset the gain reduction that occurs when audio is compressed. It is often referred to as Make-up Gain. When this gain offset is applied to compressed audio, the perceived, average level of the audio is increased. Excessive Make-up Gain can sometimes elevate noise that may have been previously inaudible at lower average levels.

    Earlier I discussed how an elevated Drive control setting on the 286s will increase the input signal of low level source audio. In doing so you may pick up a suitable amount of compression. However you also run the risk of a noticeable increase in noise. In this particular scenario, try setting the Output Gain on the 286s to a negative value to offset the gain (and noise) that may have been introduced by the Drive setting.

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