Recording Electric Rock Guitars - Fizzy, Harsh Rubbish.

TheBlackDog93

New member
My god someone please help me, what on earth am I missing, why can't I get my guitars to sound like they do on a proper record, and not like boxy fizzy nothingness? I've been trying to do this for about 5 years now, and I've got nowhere.

I've been through it all, high watt amps, low watt amps, different mic positioning, different mics, pairing two mics, different cables, pedal distortion, amp distortion, recording at stupidly low gain, knocking the amp down and mic preamp up and vice versa, different guitars, different pickups, they all seem to give me a different shade of rubbish. I always have to do intense EQing in the mixing process to get rid of what sounds like pink noise in my guitar signal that seems to make the recording sound so distant and awful, and WHATEVER I do it always seems to be there. The only thing I can imagine that could make it sound better is a nice tube analog preamp? I'm currently recording with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 with SM57 and E906....

Any help would be appreciated, Thankyou.
 
Use headphones to determine mic position-if the sound is noise in the phones, it's noise on the track. Back off the distortion, I mean way way off. Just a little break up with the loudest parts. Then double track the same part with different pick up, guitar or fret position. The idea is to get as much tone as possible. Do not "smiley face" your amp eq. Lotsa bass , less mids, more highs sound great in the room to your ears- but microphones add all that together and output mush. I tend to have most of my amps' eq knobs between 9 o'clock and 7 o'clock. Make sure the arrangement has room in the middle, save the bottom for bass and keys/pads/kick and the low mids for the toms/snare. Once you are getting plenty of "middle" (where guitar tones live) going down then you can eq(depending on the genre I will chop both the top and the bottom with shelving eqs instead of filters- to me it doesn't sound as weird. Might high pass if there is some obvious sub noise that's bothersome. Number one thing though is to always remember, mics are not ears and what you hear and what the mic "hears" rarely coincide (unless you have a great room and high dollar mic). Another issue can be where in the room the amp is placed. Proximity to walls and ceiling can change what frequencies are combed/reinforced, which can sound good sometimes and bad others. Try on a chair/stand in the middle of the room with a packing blanket or similar over the amp and mic. I have a tendency to push amps when I set them up then I literally back the volume knobs down on the guitar until it's barely overdriving if at all . Then I can roll on as needed in spots to get a little over the top buzz. Anyway, some stuff to try . YMMV. If you know anyone with a decent ribbon they can work magic when set up properly too.
 
I am currently recording an album for a client and bringing in a session guitarist, the session guitarist himself has produced major selling albums here in Australia. We use a SM57 directly in front of the amp with the mic almost touching the speaker cloth slightly off the centre of the speaker. Guitar sounds great, and he agrees with this comment, If you can't get a good sound from a SM57 then the amp sound is the main problem. Stick your head in front of the speaker and listen to what the mic is hearing.

I agree that the amp position in the room has to be right, make sure that the back of the amp is not parallel to the wall for one thing.

I also agree that using other mics to compliment the SM57 and using room mics to get a variation to the sound are things to try, but the bottom line is using a SM57 will get a good sound.

Alan.
 
In my humble opinion, I'm in agreement with the above post.
I'd like to add this. An AKG 414 on the far side of the room, while not a must, is of great benefit. It will capture the guitar sound in the room, which we're all used to hearing.
Other LDC mics can be used, but the 414 is my fave.
Capturing the room sound eliminates having to add artificial processing as well.

Now the 57 on its own does however do just fine.

Here in my opinion, are the keys to a good or great guitar sound (in order of importance)

One. A good player that is familiar with being recorded.
Two. A good guitar
Three, a good amp

Micing it is the easy part. :)
You just stick a 57 on the speaker, don't clip your daw, and you're golden, provided you having the first three elements.
If you can't get a good sound with a 57, the crucial three components need to be fixed.
:D
 
Geez, the last time I told someone to stick theri head in front of the speaker (and listen) I got a ration of sh*t here! Jut turn down the volume first or put in earplugs. I do the same thing - SM57 about an inch from the grill cloth, usually at a slight angle, and near the edge of the speaker cone. Turn down the distortion. 'Fizzy' is usually the result of digital fuzz/distortion.
 
Try a high pass filter to clean up the rumble.
Low pass filter/high cut to clean up hash.
Cleans it up before any processing.Rumble will prematurely trigger a compressor.

G
 
I use ancient SM57's (Shure Brothers from the late 60's) and a Royer R-101 ribbon mic. Any compression added on the front end is simply to shave off loud transients. Both mics on the grill... the placement depends on how much low end or treble I want in the sound. Center of speaker cone=more high-end...edge of speaker cone =more low end.

If you are a person who wants a lot of distortion in their track, I recommend taking a DI signal right off of the guitar before the amp and adding all the heavy shit later.

Rubbish at the amp is always going to be there if you aren't listening closely to the amp and guitar combination when you record. There's an old saying.......Mic don't lie.
 
Geez, the last time I told someone to stick theri head in front of the speaker (and listen) I got a ration of sh*t here!

I was assuming it was not Spinal Tap :eek:

I was also assuming that it would be a sensible amp at a sensible volume, maybe I'm assuming too much :facepalm:

The other post about a 414 across the room, yes room mics do sound good, but the room has to sound good too. If the room is poor it just adds poor room.

And the comment about the ribbon mic, yes I like ribbon mics but I very rarely use a ribbon without something else as well, like a SM57 or large condenser.

The point I was trying to make to the OP was that keep it simple, use a SM57 or something similar, SM58, Sennheiser 421, etc etc, and work on the amp sound first. Once you are on the right track then experiment with the extra stuff.


Alan.
 
My god someone please help me, what on earth am I missing, why can't I get my guitars to sound like they do on a proper record, and not like boxy fizzy nothingness? I've been trying to do this for about 5 years now, and I've got nowhere.

I've been through it all, high watt amps, low watt amps, different mic positioning, different mics, pairing two mics, different cables, pedal distortion, amp distortion, recording at stupidly low gain, knocking the amp down and mic preamp up and vice versa, different guitars, different pickups, they all seem to give me a different shade of rubbish. I always have to do intense EQing in the mixing process to get rid of what sounds like pink noise in my guitar signal that seems to make the recording sound so distant and awful, and WHATEVER I do it always seems to be there. The only thing I can imagine that could make it sound better is a nice tube analog preamp? I'm currently recording with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 with SM57 and E906....

Any help would be appreciated, Thankyou.

Can you post an example? I can't imagine that an 18i20 and an SM57 would produce an undesirable result unless something is really out of whack. Record a snippet that exhibits the qualities that you mention and we can probably come up with some meaningful suggestions.
 
Can you post an example? I can't imagine that an 18i20 and an SM57 would produce an undesirable result unless something is really out of whack. Record a snippet that exhibits the qualities that you mention and we can probably come up with some meaningful suggestions.

Agreed, there is no reason for your guitar recording to sound like shit unless there is a problem.

Post a link please. :)
 
What amp are you using? I have this Peavy Bandit that has the worst distortion channel. Completely useless fizz. The clean channel is great.

So, what amp are you using?

There's a guitar tone thread in the guitar section you can peruse through. You might get ideas of what is possible.
 
As ever..Guitar Amp Recording |

Plus, grannies and eggs notwithstanding, track at -18dBfs to avoid any chance of digital crackover. People also always say "less is more". Less distortion than you think you need, less volume than you think. Regardless of amp, the sound level in the room, at the PLAYER needs to be around 90dB SPL. (don't have a sound level meter? You ARE joking?). Even a modest 15W valve amp with a "proper" speaker can produce 112dB SPL AT A METRE! foork knows the level at the cone!

I take the caveat against Mk1 lug against amp! You would not be fit to judge anything for some hours after. Headphones tell you exactly what the mic is picking up and at a controlled level.

Dave.
 
My god someone please help me, what on earth am I missing, why can't I get my guitars to sound like they do on a proper record, and not like boxy fizzy nothingness? I've been trying to do this for about 5 years now, and I've got nowhere.

I've been through it all, high watt amps, low watt amps, different mic positioning, different mics, pairing two mics, different cables, pedal distortion, amp distortion, recording at stupidly low gain, knocking the amp down and mic preamp up and vice versa, different guitars, different pickups, they all seem to give me a different shade of rubbish. I always have to do intense EQing in the mixing process to get rid of what sounds like pink noise in my guitar signal that seems to make the recording sound so distant and awful, and WHATEVER I do it always seems to be there. The only thing I can imagine that could make it sound better is a nice tube analog preamp? I'm currently recording with a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 with SM57 and E906....

Any help would be appreciated, Thankyou.

Is there any way you can post a clip of 1) a mix with your guitars, and 2) a solo'd single guitar track from that mix?

Couple quick thoughts...

1) are you auditioning a guitar tone listening to the amp in the room, in normal playing position? If you are, try listening to your amp from right in front of the speaker, in more or less the same position as the mic will be placed. I dialed in my amp WAY too bright before I thought to start doing this, and because of that I always thought my tone was awesome, but the SM57 was a peice of crap because it always made my guitar sound edgy and fizzy. As it turns out, they were, I was just listening from a position I couldn't hear tha.

2) I think this is less true than it used to be, because you've heard it so much on the 'net for years now... But, in general, heavy guitar sounds have less gain, more midrange, and less bass than you expect, and oftentimes you can get a clearer, thicker guitar sound by turning down the gain and double-tracking.

3) the SM57 is very position sensitive, and your ear, left to its own devices, has a tendency to prefer "brighter" sounds to duller ones. This can lead you to select a brighter mic position than might be ideal while tracking. Try spending some time testing, with a bass and drum track, and recording a series of double tracked riffs, starting with the position you think is "right," but also recording one or two brighter positions and a couple progressively darker ones, as well, and take notes somewhere where the mic is positioned for each of them. Then, walk away for an hour, come back, and listen to the tracks you've recorded, and see if any of them sound clearly better than your usual approach. If so, you've got a better idea of where you want to place your mic.

4) I'm a believer in multi-mic setups for recording distorted guitar... But, for the time being, try using just the SM57. The first time I tried using two mics together, probably more than a decade ago, it sounded like crap. I stuck to one mic for years after that, and gradually got better at dialing in an amp sound, positioning a mic, etc, until I was getting pretty good results with a SM57 alone. Then, when I already had a good handle on how to position a SM57 to get a sound I'd like in a mix, and when I had a better understanding of phase issues and how to work with them, when I started adding a second mic to suppliment the first (and that's an important reason to really nail down how to get a good tone out of a SM57 - I'm using a MD421 as well, but the SM57 is still the core of my tone and the 421 is supporting it - this is fairly typical), it sounded awesome.


So, tl;dr - make sure you're dialing your amp in for where your mic will "hear" it, make sure you're not over-saturating your guitar and scooping out all the mids, spend some time experimenting with mic position in a methodical manner, and for the time being don't worry about a second mic until you can get consistently good results out of a single mic.

Your Focusrite and mics should be good enough to give you great results - don't worry about fancy preamps until your guitar tone is 95-99% of the way there (and I say that as a guy who also likes fancy preamps).
 
I agree with the general sentiment that you can't be helped without context. We have no idea how your recordings sound.

I've been paid to re-amp guitars though and got the gig just by posting up a re-amped clip I did. He seemed to dig it and I will tell you I don't do anything special. Just a single sm57, cab and head. I'm not even using anything special for preamps.
 
I can so relate to the original poster. I, too, have tried everything under the sun. After more than 4 years of endless research and experimentation, my tones are just as bad as they were 4 years ago. I have tried every knob combination and every mic placement known to man, and nothing seems to sound like a real guitar recording. Put the SM57 near the cap edge, too fizzy. Put the SM57 away from the cap edge, more midrange but dull. Put the mic on the grille, full but ridiculously bassy. Pull the mic away from the grille, better but thinner and fizzier again. My amp sounds great in the room with all knobs around noon. Great midrange, with just a bit of honk, and a nice high-end sparkle on top. Just like Maiden on Piece of Mind. On my recording, it sounds extremely scooped, nothing but fizz and boom, no midrange or body.

I know that people are trying to help here, but telling someone with a vast collection of pro gear that the problem is some combination of 1) player, 2) guitar, and 3) amp is not helpful. I am not sure what the solution is, but there has to be more to great recorded guitar tone than just sticking an SM57 somewhere on the speaker. I am still waiting for the day when someone will come up with a suggestion that actually works.
 
I stand by what I said back in Dec 2018. Also use Multiple mics and record to separate tracks then mix them together to build the sound you want. I have attached a photo from a session I recently did, the guitar sound with virtually no EQ is fantastic. There is a SM57, A ribbon mic, and a LDC. The placement on the speaker cone is important. The reason for the close mics only and the baffles is that this album was tracked live, drums, bass and guitar together so I had to minimize spill.

I know you don't want to hear it, but engineers for years have been getting a great sound form a SM57, if you are not you need to have a look at what you are doing and read again what others do.

IMG_5104.JPG
 
After more than 4 years of endless research and experimentation, my tones are just as bad as they were 4 years ago
The only person that can honestly determine what you're looking for is you. Are you being realistic ? I couldn't figure it out at first but I soon learned that pretty often, more often than not in my case {!!}, the way things sound when recorded is not exactly what it sounds like to my ears as I'm listening in the room or on headphones. Drums never sound like they do when you're in the same room hearing them being played. But then, neither does my voice. Acoustic guitar doesn't. Hardly anything does. It's a bit like how photographs don't exactly replicate what you are actually seeing with your eyes.
I have tried every knob combination and every mic placement known to man, and nothing seems to sound like a real guitar recording
Well, they are real guitar recordings.
Sometimes though, a great tone on its own is not a great tone for the song and vice versa. Sometimes, what you may think is pretty lame, when put together with the other instruments and voices nails it.
I know that people are trying to help here, but telling someone with a vast collection of pro gear that the problem is some combination of 1) player, 2) guitar, and 3) amp is not helpful
But what if that is key to sorting out the problem ?
I am not sure what the solution is, but there has to be more to great recorded guitar tone than just sticking an SM57 somewhere on the speaker
Think about that for a moment. You don't know what the solution is but you know what it isn't, even from people who routinely get the sound they want and tell you how to do it.
That sounds somewhat upside down, if you don't mind me saying so.
People giving advice can only give advice from what their own experience tells them. If someone gets great guitar sounds by just sticking a 57 on an amp then that is how they do it. That it may not solve it for you has nothing to do with anyone but you.
I am still waiting for the day when someone will come up with a suggestion that actually works
I found that what worked for me was to stop being so fussy and trying to slavishly copy someone's sound. It took a while to get to that way of thinking. I also take note of every single method of recording guitars that people share ~ as well as throwing in a few of my own.
 
Interestingly, the OP never replied to any of the questions, never returned to the thread, never returned to HR.
Maybe Eric Clapton gave them the advice they needed to get the sound they were looking for.:unsure:
 
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