Recording bass

I'm often struggling to get a decent bass tone on my songs. They often sound 'woofy' or 'flabby' The strings are in decent nick and I'm not quite sure where I'm going wrong. I record DI into a focusrite solo and have tried a couple of plug ins along with reapers own cockos compression preset for bass. Any tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Mark
I have struggled as well...and now I love the bass sounds I am getting. I switched to flat wound strings recently which was a huge improvement. The sound is much more focussed now. I record DI via a Great River pre....the hi Z inputs of my Steinberg UR44 do not sound near as good. The GR has nice transformers!

Tom
 
I have struggled as well...and now I love the bass sounds I am getting. I switched to flat wound strings recently which was a huge improvement. The sound is much more focussed now. I record DI via a Great River pre....the hi Z inputs of my Steinberg UR44 do not sound near as good. The GR has nice transformers!

Tom

I also switched out the factory rounds for La Bella flats and am getting good results.

Interesting...as the reading i did on flats was that whilst smoother, it is harder to get definition within a mix?
 
They can be. I was thinking the same thing before I put them on, but I also replaced the pups with an EMG GZR Passive PJ kit, and that made the difference. The more gain at the interface, the better - that brings out the EMG's character. I also add a VST plugin preamp and a thin pick.
 
Interesting...as the reading i did on flats was that whilst smoother, it is harder to get definition within a mix?
I've done a lot of reading on the subject and virtually every article says the same......but I have found the conclusion to be something of a myth.

So many variables go into the sound of a bass guitar both as one is playing it and within a mix. Fingers, pick {or what one uses as a pick. Thimbles can be brilliant although they can hurt !}. Amp settings of all kinds. Pedals. DI settings. Mic'd with different condensers and dynamic mikes , close miked, distance mikes, mics facing the wall, mikes pointing at the back of the amp. EQ. Effects. Style of playing. Aggressive, gentle. Thuddy, twangy. 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 12 string. Among others. The strings obviously make a difference as do all the variables and the way other instruments in the mix are handled to bring out {or somewhat mute} the bass guitar. But flatwound strings can be used for a twangy sound and can be easily well defined in a mix. It's boring to say it but there's a solution to every problem but one often has to do quite a bit of searching and sifting if that solution doesn't come easily or quickly.

In a way it's a bit like virtual instruments when one first comes across them; one just wants to plug in and play. Some of them are great right from the start but most I've encountered have needed to be tweaked and experimented with and brought to heel to learn to obey my dictat. :D
 
mcmac74 said:
Interesting...as the reading i did on flats was that whilst smoother, it is harder to get definition within a mix?

There are a number of different kinds of flats out there. It depends on what kind of sound you want. It's not uncommon for flatwounds to have a long break in period followed by an extremely long lifespan. Flats typically don't produce as much harmonic content through the upper midrange as rounds. Especially stainless, which can really give you sort of a piano like tone when they're new.

Paul McCartney, James Jamerson, Carol Kaye and Steve Harris all seem to be fairly well defined in the mix. Distortion can help.
 
That is correct and I have used that specific DI on bass and it does well. I have actually used one of these :Nady Direct Boxes | Guitar Center and it works great for getting rid of video monitor noise and has a good bit of presence.

As for software I can recommend the Plugin Alliance Ampeg modelers for great "rock" tone and they are often on sale (watch for Black Friday/Cyber Monday)

I now have the DI...I'd assumed i wouldn't use Phantom power turned on but only just hitting -18db with the input level turned to max...does it need PP?
 
I'm often struggling to get a decent bass tone on my songs. They often sound 'woofy' or 'flabby' The strings are in decent nick and I'm not quite sure where I'm going wrong. I record DI into a focusrite solo and have tried a couple of plug ins along with reapers own cockos compression preset for bass. Any tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Mark

Here's two DIs to check out:
A Designs Reddi Box - not cheap but my all-time favorite Bass DI: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/REDDI--a-designs-reddi-1-channel-tube-direct-box

Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI V2 - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BassDriverV2--tech-21-sansamp-bass-driver-di-v2

Skip the cheap guitar DI - you need a good transformer to let the lo end through.

hope this helps!
 
I now have the DI...I'd assumed i wouldn't use Phantom power turned on but only just hitting -18db with the input level turned to max...does it need PP?

It depends on whether you bought an active or passive DI. Actve DIs need power, which they get from (a) internal batteries and/or (b) phantom power.

DIs also deliver a mike level output, so they need to go into a XLR mike input.
 
It depends on whether you bought an active or passive DI. Actve DIs need power, which they get from (a) internal batteries and/or (b) phantom power.

DIs also deliver a mike level output, so they need to go into a XLR mike input.

Its passive and yeah I've got it going into the xlr...sounds ok, just surprised by how much input gain required.
 
I now have the DI...I'd assumed i wouldn't use Phantom power turned on but only just hitting -18db with the input level turned to max...does it need PP?

The Nady's I have are active and require a 9 volt battery for proper operation
 
Is your bass active or passive? Have you checked the battery lately?
Passive basses tend to do better with active di boxes.
 
So when I record guitar or bass, I put a SM57 and MD 421 on the amp, basically center cone. Then a large diaphragm condenser about 3-4 feet out in front of the amp, and finally the DI track in case I need to re-amp: 3 mics/4 tracks per guitar or bass. Maybe overkill but it sounds GOOD. I've never had to re-amp anything and the DI track is GREAT for seeing the transients, since amp tracks are usually undefined blobs of waveform.

I still have my gear set up from when I tracked my Mexican Player P-Bass with stock passive pickup. I have the DI track going into a channel on my FMR Really Nice Preamp. The gain knob is at 48db and the thing only goes to 66db so, yeah, you'll have to turn up the gain. That's about 3/4 of the way up the dial on this knob. If your bass is anything like my basses, there will be notes on certain strings that are super loud compared to others. Just make sure you're not breaking the meter on the preamp into the audio interface.

I have a UAD system and use Distressors on the three microphone tracks and each is set at 6:1 and to hit pretty fast. I now know why people love Distressors on bass. But the point I'm trying to make is the signal won't be amazing at first. But you compress it more than you would think, maybe hit it with some tape saturation or a saturation plugin and perhaps using EQ ahead of all that, and you'll make it sound fine.

This is the DI track of just the P-Bass into a Radial DI into the RNP into the Apollo x16:View attachment P Bass DI Track (no effects).mp3

And then the three microphone tracks, mixed together to a bus and the Decapitator with maybe 1-2 db of the meter working: View attachment P Bass microphone trackes mixed.mp3

I left the mic-mixed tracks at the levels I have them in my project, which is the two close mics' faders at about -2/-3 db and the room mic somewhere at like -6/-8db (they're a lot quieter than that in the meters, it's just the fader levels). They still ended up close in volume to the 0db fader'ed DI track and for sure more even in volume. I attribute the evenness to multiple mics on an amp plus compression.

Edited to add: I use flatwound strings because I play guitar and I like to keep the skin on my fingers. I picked this bassline but usually I finger pick because it is so fun! The amp is a Hartke TX600 into a Seismic cabinet I bought on sale on Amazon and put a 12-inch 400-Watt Yamaha bass speaker into that I bought from a local guitar/music shop

Double edit: Ha, I misspelled 'tracks' on the one file. d'oh
 
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Thanks for all the input.

So, the cheap DI from Behringer didn't make a great deal of difference. My bass doesn't have a great deal of tonal control....just a 3 way switch and volume dial. I don't have a bass amp and I'm not inclined (at the moment) to spend big £ on some of the recommended options for specific bass DI.

What i did do in the spirit of experimenting was dig out my old TF pro (formerly Joe Meek) pre amp to have a play around with the optical compressor and EQ settings... I also switched my plectrum to a 4mm felt...I recorded some last night and although early in the mix, I'm happier with the tone than of late.
 
All my DIs sound the same. They’re a connection device they’re not meant to offer tonal possibilities. They reveal the sound of the instrument, good or bad. Plug ins are not di boxes, they’re tonal, which can be good. Surely you buy a DI box to be as transparent as you can get?
 
"Surely you buy a DI box to be as transparent as you can get?"
Well, as a rule Rob but some of the really cheap DIs use a transformer smaller than my left, little finger top joint and therefore create some distortion that some players quite like.

Dave.
 
What are your thoughts on the Line6 Toneport /pod models?

Ecc83, those hardware DI's have electronics inside them at least. The line6 box is an empty plastic shell.
 
I love the idea that distortion can help - Steve Harris? Yep - I get that one. Carol Kaye and Paul McCartney? Struggling there. Seriously though, this is simply a player and instrument thing. My best bass for playing live records horribly, and my best sounding bass struggles live - they are what they are? Dave - re: the transformer change. I really don't hear this. Fair enough, most times 100% of my DI use is on stage - and while I have 3 BSS DI's, I've also got one I paid £9.95 for and it's rusty - but if I need a DI and hat one is close and the BSS ones are 100m away, then I'll play through the cheap thing and never notice!
 
"Ecc83, those hardware DI's have electronics inside them at least. The line6 box is an empty plastic shell." ?? A transformer can be considered "electronics" The terminology is "Active" or "passive". Actives usually run on phantom power or/and battery.

Rob: Don't know. I have read that a cheapo DI can add a bit of attitude to both guitar and bass (else why do Radial charge spare limbs for ultra clean ones?) but it might be just another guitar myth! I would say it is at least one that has some basis in theory, crap transformers do distort and it is proportional to the inverse of frequency.

We had a 6cuft reflex cab here, 15" 200W Fane bass git chassis and cab built to Fane drawings. Bog useless for recording because even at low volumes every mortal thing in the room rattled including the old wooden windows (UPVC DG now) DI was the only way.

Dave.
 
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