Recording a band...Drums first?

jmxdrummer

jmxdrummer

New member
today I had a screamo band in my studio. after several attempts we couldn't finish one single song. I was ready to kick them out of studio. They dont know how to play to a click track. One of the band members, suggested recording the drums first. I fucking laughed at the idea. They insisted so what I did, I patch the guitarist into the mixing board and recorded the drums. Drummer was playing to the guitarist playing thru the mixer. After that I miked the guitar amp and recorded the guitar tracks after, then bass, and vocals. I couldn't beleive it. Recording drums first fucking worked. has any one ever experience this in the studio? I normally wont put up with this crap, but I could shure use the income.

LESSON FOR TODAY, LEARN TO PLAY TO A FUCKING CLICK TRACK!!!!!!!


SCREAMO SUCKS SHIT
 
I almost always do drums first. And with a click. If they can't play to a click theyare going to have to count out all the breaks, intros, endings and so on. There is nothing like trying to get 4 or 5 guys on the same page after the damage is done. I feel your specific kind of pain!!!
 
jmxdrummer said:
today I had a screamo band in my studio. after several attempts we couldn't finish one single song. I was ready to kick them out of studio. They dont know how to play to a click track. One of the band members, suggested recording the drums first. I fucking laughed at the idea. They insisted so what I did, I patch the guitarist into the mixing board and recorded the drums. Drummer was playing to the guitarist playing thru the mixer. After that I miked the guitar amp and recorded the guitar tracks after, then bass, and vocals. I couldn't beleive it. Recording drums first fucking worked. has any one ever experience this in the studio? I normally wont put up with this crap, but I could shure use the income.

LESSON FOR TODAY, LEARN TO PLAY TO A FUCKING CLICK TRACK!!!!!!!


SCREAMO SUCKS SHIT
Click to expand...


Dude, you don't usually record drums first? In what dreamland do you live where every member of the band can play to a click? I've had one, out of about 20 bands so far. Anyway, drums first is pretty much a standard in my studio. Even if they can play to a click I always do drums first, just seems way easier.
 
maybe I do live in a dreamland where people are real musicians. True musicians always play with a metronome. that is standard in the performing arts. I admit that I was wrong to assume that everyone can play to a click track. It's a learning process., so chill out.
 
jmxdrummer said:
. True musicians always play with a metronome. that is standard in the performing arts. .
Click to expand...


True musicians???? I would lose this line of thought as quickly as possible... Do you think your clients are not true musicians if they don't use a metronome?

I just attended two Applications in Computer Music courses in college where the class recorded popular songs. The prof's assistand insisted we record to a click track starting with guitar first.l suggested that we start with drums first,but it was shot down. The thing was...we were using drums from a Korg work station...and recording through Digital Performer. Why on earth he insisted that we all play to a click track when we were going to used digital drums anyway is anyone's guess. I think the fact that he was a keyboard player had a MAJOR thing to do with it...it's been my experience that most keyboard players assume that everyone plays to a metronome. They don't.

I have no problem playing to a drum machine or a live drummer (I prefer a live drummer), but the problem I had with the click track is that the tone of the click track was extremely annoying. I sounded like an early 1970's pong game where the first beat was MUCH louder and tinnier than the other three. I asked it they could alter the tone some how, and was told "I'm sure there's a way to do it, I'd have to read through the manual to find it though..." we looked and found nothing on the subject.

Drums, bass, guitars, keys, backing vocals, lead vocals or solos....is what the norm use to be...your mileage may vary.


J.P.
 
bands like this RELY on energy to play their songs. sitting the drummer in a room and playing a click is ALWAYS ALWAYS going to be a disaster when hes used to being surrounded by all his friends screaming their heads off. maybe you should have kicked them out and given them names of studios in the area that aren't run by an asshole.
 
SCREW YOU TREY. I guess Im an asshole for the follow:

1. im an asshole for giving the band extra 15hrs to their session
2. im an asshole for letting them use my acoustic guitar
3. Im an asshole for letting them use my bass
4. Im an asshole for giving them a huge discount.
5. Im an asshole for repairing one of their guitars.

First of all, I never forced a metronome(click) on them.
I started this posted because I came across something interesting, that's it. I have spoken to many friends who have be in the recording business for a long time, and they were weirded out by the concept of recording the drums first. I was taught another way in college. Yes i did step over the line when I made the comment of TRUE MUSICIAN, but I was pissed off that someone said I was in a dreamland. when the band came in, i assumed that they couldnt play to a click track, therefore I had them play all at once to record a scratch track. From that scratch track, each band member would then overdub their part.

:mad:
 
For straight-ahead 'band' style recordings, drums first, playing along with guitar scratch.

I resent the 'true musicians' comment.
I resent metronomes. :mad:

You can't make a click track for every song. Some are above that :)
 
click tracks have no emotion. a song will have more energy if you lay down drums first like you said, using the guitar as a basis.
 
jmxdrummer said:
. One of the band members, suggested recording the drums first. I fucking laughed at the idea.
Click to expand...

You're recording bands and you laugh at the idea of recording drums first? Are you sure you've ever recorded a band before? How do you think most of any music you're ever heard was recorded? That's right, drums first. You should educate yourself before you start "laughing" at something that's common practice.

These guys are paying you???? And you're not ashamed to take their money?
THAT's what's wrong with the music business today.
 
Yeah, i agree with Rami. We've recorded excellent songs drums first. WITH NOTHING ELSE. nate happens to be good enough to know every single break and count in the songs so it's not a problem.

And further more, forcing an indie band to record to a click is kinda lame. It sort of goes against the ethos of wait their about. And letting them use your acoustic, you're a studio, you're supposed to. Giving them an extra 15 hours free? Why? If i were in a band recording, the onyl way i'd get 15 hours free is if the eng screwed up.

The point is, there are 1001 ways to record, none of them is right or wrong. If it ended up sounding good, then they and you did your jobs. Giving them a hard time....priceless :)
 
metronomes - a drummers perspective

This thread is getting pretty loud. I will tell you some of my experiences, playing with a band, and recording with a band and doing my solo recording.

Personally, I feel as many do that a click is essential to work with obviously to try to improve ones playing with strong meter. I have witnessed players totally crawl into a shell when their sense of meter is exposed by a click. I am speaking mainly of non-drummers.

When a guitar player totally falls apart when working with a click it freaks them out and I have heard them say "theres something wrong with that thing". The reason they can play with a drummer is because a good drummer makes constant adjustments to carry the band when the real "time" is not scientific.

As far as drums first, etc., it all depends on the song. I just started home recording, and the way I am doing my solo work where its just me , myself, and I on all instruments, I record a click on one of the tracks. Than I usually play the bass line while monitoring the click, than the other instruments.

I like(so far) to do the drums last on the track which had the click. I have friends who do the drums first with a drum machine (which is basically just a click, anyways).

I think I do the drums last because while I am playing the other instruments, I know in my head or chart what the drums are going to be expressing.

I dont see a right way or a wrong way, just whatever works with the people you are working with in a band recording. Face it, a lot of people who walk into a recording studio arent professional musicians, in that kind of situation, the recording engineer has to become the new "band leader" or nothing gets finished and everyone gets really pissed off.

From what I have experienced in recording studios, when that happens I have seen engineers usually just say," hey fellas..how bout we just go into the band room where I can really capture your unique sound!"

That usually seems to do the trick.

I dont envy sound engineers, and I have the utmost respect as they are all the 5th Beatle. I have always wondered what the Beatles would have sounded like without George Martin.

I just got into this home recording and its a hairy ass instrument as far as I am concerned. I think learning to play the sitar while going over the Niagra Falls in a barrel is easier than trying to get an initial comprehension of mixing,recording,etc.

So the only thing I would do in that kind of situation you described is "dont get mad, bill them!!!"
 
thank you clevodrummer for your perpective. ONCE AGAIN I DIDN'T HAVE THE BAND RECORD WITH A METRONOME OR CLICK!!! as far as me having to let bands use my guitars, bass or drums, is not my job. Im there to record them. Ive also played in many bands, and there were many times in various recording studios, where the engineer refused to let us play his instruments. YES I HAVE RECORDED VARIOUS BAND, BUT NOT DRUMS FIRST. I have always recorded them all together in a scratch track with NO CLICK. Then each guys would record there part (overdub). I cant believe the hostility reguarding this post. I apologize about the true musician thing, but I disgree that playing to a metronome equals no emotion. Metronome helps ones timing dramaticly. Ive been playing drums for 18 years, and my drumming has gotten considerly better when I train myself with a metronome. I think now people are just pissed off at me because of the real musician comment.
 
shit i was just make a comment on how this method worked for me, considering that i've recorded many other ways. But everyone decided to attack me for something that everyone claims is a standard. for me and other people that i know who also run studios, this was new to them also. I was not attacking anyone. yes it would be nice to record to a click track but many dont. OK I WAS SCHOOLED TODAY BY EVERYONE. I GOT IT KNOW. I DONE WITH THIS POST.
 
jmxdrummer said:
shit i was just make a comment on how this method worked for me, considering that i've recorded many other ways. But everyone decided to attack me for something that everyone claims is a standard. for me and other people that i know who also run studios, this was new to them also. I was not attacking anyone. yes it would be nice to record to a click track but many dont. OK I WAS SCHOOLED TODAY BY EVERYONE. I GOT IT KNOW. I DONE WITH THIS POST.
Click to expand...


Well just incase you didn't get it try recording drums first. If it works for mixerman on multi-million dollar productions then I'm sure it can work for you. It's not so much the true musicians thing, its more that you act like you're kind of a know it all at recording when to some of us it's pretty obvious you could learn a lot more. See you started a thread just to bitch about a band fucking up when really it was probably you making it harder on them. You should be a better engineer than that. Remember to try DRUMS FIRST.
 
jmxdrummer said:
SCREW YOU TREY. I guess Im an asshole for the follow:

1. im an asshole for giving the band extra 15hrs to their session
2. im an asshole for letting them use my acoustic guitar
3. Im an asshole for letting them use my bass
4. Im an asshole for giving them a huge discount.
5. Im an asshole for repairing one of their guitars.

First of all, I never forced a metronome(click) on them.
I started this posted because I came across something interesting, that's it. I have spoken to many friends who have be in the recording business for a long time, and they were weirded out by the concept of recording the drums first. I was taught another way in college. Yes i did step over the line when I made the comment of TRUE MUSICIAN, but I was pissed off that someone said I was in a dreamland. when the band came in, i assumed that they couldnt play to a click track, therefore I had them play all at once to record a scratch track. From that scratch track, each band member would then overdub their part.

:mad:
Click to expand...

oh please.
i was actually going to not call you an asshole in my post until i went and reread your original post again... "SCREAMO SUCKS SHIT", "I was ready to kick them out of studio." and "I fucking laughed at the idea."
 
I Got It Drums First. Im Going To Lay Low For Awhile. Im Offending Everyone, Im Too Angry To Be Posting Anything. It Also Doesnt Help That My Wife Is In The Hospital, So Iam Extremely Explosive. Once Again I Applogized , If Any One Cares.
 
jmxdrummer said:
I Got It Drums First. Im Going To Lay Low For Awhile. Im Offending Everyone, Im Too Angry To Be Posting Anything. It Also Doesnt Help That My Wife Is In The Hospital, So Iam Extremely Explosive. Once Again I Applogized , If Any One Cares.
Click to expand...
Oh fuck them!Tell 'em to pound sand up their asses!
If you are angry,come to the Dragon Cave!You'll be among angry friends!
Come to me,my son!
 
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