Recommendations for upgrades/additional gear

[Malik161]

Hey all, I'm thinking of investing some more money in to my set up and I'm not sure where to start as I'm not that knowledgable in the technicalities of this.

My budget is around £5000 (around $6000). Currently I own an TLM 103 and an apogee duet 2.

The items I'm considering buying are a high end compressor, preamp and maybe a new mic.

My main aim is recording vocals and getting the best sound possible (considering budget ofc). I'm also wondering if I could do without a compressor and still get high quality vocals, or if it's something definitely worth buying.

Sorry for asking such generic questions, wasn't sure what else to do!

 

[miroslav]

It would help if you described what it is you are doing...type of music, how you plan to record...etc.

 

[mixsit]

It would help if you described what it is you are doing...type of music, how you plan to record...etc.

And.. given all the posts lately re 'noise / 'quality problems with basic setups.. How you fairing so far with these totally adequate and quality pieces?

My main aim is recording vocals and getting the best sound possible (considering budget ofc). I'm also wondering if I could do without a compressor and still get high quality vocals, or if it's something definitely worth buying.

Totally. There's a few reasons for compressing on the way in, but way down on the scale of 'make or break' things in high quality tracking!

How about room noise / mic area treatment? Except for close micing guitar cabs, that's a pretty big one.

 

[mjbphotos]

And the obvious questions:
What monitors do you currently have?
What acoustic treatment do you have in the room?
What don't you like about your current recordings?

 

[Massive Master]

SM7b and a bunch of broadband trapping. And better monitors.

Granted -- I don't even know what monitors you're using. But it's a rare occasion that "better monitoring" isn't a great idea. ;-)

 

[Malik161]

It would help if you described what it is you are doing...type of music, how you plan to record...etc.

I make r&b music

 

[Malik161]

I've got some broadband bass traps and I'd say the room is well treated. That isn't the issue. I feel like the current recordings are lacking some warmth and strength to them ifthat makes sense. I want to add these without compromising that clean r&b sound

 

[Malik161]

And.. given all the posts lately re 'noise / 'quality problems with basic setups.. How you fairing so far with these totally adequate and quality pieces?


Totally. There's a few reasons for compressing on the way in, but way down on the scale of 'make or break' things in high quality tracking!

Honestly it's not really that much of a problem right now. The vocals are nice. I just think they can be improved.

I noticed a lot artists in the industry use compressors so I thought adding one to my setup would bring me up to industry standards equipmentwise.

 

[mixsit]

Honestly it's not really that much of a problem right now. The vocals are nice. I just think they can be improved.

I noticed a lot artists in the industry use compressors so I thought adding one to my setup would bring me up to industry standards equipmentwise.

Rather than a 'standard, I'd offer tracking with compression falls into a work style and preference.
While tracking- [can] lead to 'closer to finished sound' earlier in the process. [maybe..]
But then there's many of us won't know the 'exactly perfect' compression for a given track-- without being in the controlled context of the mix.
It might be fair to say someone with lots of experience, tracking someones else behind the glass in a proper studio is likely apt to make better choices committing the sound on the way in.

Having said that.. buy some nice pieces, have fun and learn. I did (...not in a Proper Studio btw :>)

 

[jimmys69]

I've got some broadband bass traps and I'd say the room is well treated. That isn't the issue. I feel like the current recordings are lacking some warmth and strength to them ifthat makes sense. I want to add these without compromising that clean r&b sound

Just curious what you actually have for 'broadband bass traps'. Not trying to be a dick but those are actually two different things in one description. A bass trap may be able to trap a broadband of frequencies, but it is not the main purpose. Please don't tell me you have Auralex wedges...


As to your original post, I would make sure you have the room treated before even adding a high end preamp. Not that they are not a great upgrade, but monitors and room treatment will be the first order of investment before mics or preamps. The room acoustics will be the first order/cheapest improvement by far.

That being said, I do love my SM7b with a Vintech X73i. But my room(s) are well treated so I actually get the benefit of the expense.

As far a a compressor on the way in; I would say don't bother even trying until you have enough experience with your room for like maybe 10 years before you waste your money. Unless you are recording to tape, there really is absolutely no benefit to using an outboard compressor.

 

[Malik161]

I might just pass on the compressor for now and leave it to doing it in the mixing stage. I plan to purchase an avalon 737 (or neve 1073) for now and just pair that with my tlm 103. My next upgrade after that will probably be a u87.

 

[Massive Master]

I still think you should get a nice "vocal-friendly" mic in there (SM7b is a fave, although RE20 or 27ND would be reasonably high on the list also).

 

[Malik161]

I'm sorry but what is it with people constantly buzzing over the sm7b. It's a dynamic mic, mainly used for radio. I've used it. It sounds boring and dull. Definitely not fit for purpose for r&b.

 

[witzendoz]

I'm sorry but what is it with people constantly buzzing over the sm7b. It's a dynamic mic, mainly used for radio. I've used it. It sounds boring and dull. Definitely not fit for purpose for r&b.

You mean dull and boring like Michael Jackson's Thriller album vocals?

Alan.

 

[Massive Master]

I'm sorry but what is it with people constantly buzzing over the sm7b. It's a dynamic mic, mainly used for radio. I've used it. It sounds boring and dull. Definitely not fit for purpose for r&b.

I can't even tell you how many times I set up a U87 and SM7b with the elements right next to each other and had R&B and rappers hit both at the same time and then listened in the control room with them so they could choose which one to use. We actually ended up using the U87 once...

Yes - it's a dynamic mic. As are most legendary vocal mics. And it's not mainly used for radio (although i suppose it's the most popular radio mic out there - along with the RE20). But that's sorta the point -- Both mics are wonderfully flattering to the human voice in an almost generic sense. As is the 58...

Don't get me wrong - The U87 is a fine microphine to be sure -- It's amazingly accurate and tends to capture exactly what's in front of it. Which is exactly why it's rarely the best choice for many vocal applications.

 

[jimmys69]

I'm sorry but what is it with people constantly buzzing over the sm7b. It's a dynamic mic, mainly used for radio. I've used it. It sounds boring and dull. Definitely not fit for purpose for r&b.

Because when you have a well treated room, and an interface or combination of interface and preamp that is ideal for any microphone, you will soon realize that the 'boring and dull' quality you think you hear, is likely either your room, or an issue with the voices/talent being recorded in your space with the SM7b. In fact that 'must' be what is happening because your statement shows that you have way bigger issues than the mic itself. The SM7b is likely one of the better mics for R&B vocals IMO.

'buzzing'? If you mean engineers/producers with real world time/experience using the microphone that works consistently pretty much always with any singer, then take that as good advice. 'Buzzing' sounds like a bullshit twitter phrase. If you want bullshit information, listen to the numerous idiots who post Youtube videos so they think they look cool. Ugh... The internet is full of incorrect and wrong information.

If you want real advice from people that actually know what they are talking about and care to direct you to learn, listen to people that are not trying to sell you anything. Base your judgements with research and advice from others before spending a bunch of cash. Take the time to learn from your own experience with basic gear.

I am very curious how you could have a budget of $6,000 for a mic and preamp, and you yet think that the SM7b is dull and boring. If you feel that way, then I can only assume that you have not invested time in building or placed acoustic treatments in your room and would not have a basis to decide what a quality preamp would actually do for you in a beneficial way. And ironically, the SM7b is likely one of the best mics to use if your room isn't treated well.

Unless you have the fundamental knowledge of what it takes to make good recordings, then it can't be possible to know what preamp you 'think' you are in need of. If you have this personal opinion of a mic that Grammy award winning producers/engineers have used for years, then it is an issue that you are neglecting to understand. Sorry man. It is obvious you have issues that have made you form an opinion that most professionals will disagree with.

I am guessing someone told you the Avalon 737 was a good purchase huh? I would say from my own personal experience with them is that they are an overpriced piece of gear that you would be wasting money on if you first do not understand what the most important thing is. Do you know what that is? I hope you do.

Sorry for being so blunt. I just don't want you to listen to bullshit ads or Youtube videos and make purchases because of what you hear from people that don't give a shit. It all starts with talent. I ends with talent. The gear used to record it is worthless if the user doesn't know what they are doing or record in a shit environment.

I hope I didn't read into your post too much and make incorrect assumptions. I am here to help people as much as I can. But it seemed to me that you have not yet taken care of the most important things because of your statement about the SM7b. If you still feel that way after reading my reply, then we should talk more...

 

[Malik161]

Thanks for the lengthy and informative response. wrote a reply a min ago but didn't send somehow so I'll keep it short this time.

I feel like certain aspects are over exaggerated constantly. Room acoustics, I see many professional artists recording without it and recording on tour buses and hotels. They don't seem to have a problem with it yet people mention it like it will make or break a recording. Take tinashe on this vid for example, she just has an acoustic shield.
TinasheTV -- Inside My Home Studio - YouTube

I'm glad you mentioned the most important aspect, the vocal. No one else does, they just recommend expensive gear either way and it's never a 'one size fits all' usually.

I guess my response towards the sm7b was due to a lack of understanding at the time. We didn't use it longer than a few hours. And when you constantly see industry artists using nothing but u87s and condensers, you'd see where the biased opinion is coming from.

 

[Steenamaroo]

It's one of those mics. You don't often hear it described as the best, the favourite, or the goto,
but you often hear people say they wouldn't be without it.

Maybe if they auditioned 10 mics for a job they might end up choosing something else (per voice!) but where time doesn't permit you can be sure the 7b will do a bang up job.

I only have a small home studio but I've never put up a 7b and thought...yeah...that's not working.
I have done that with other microphones, though.

I remember at college they had one u87 and four studios. The u87 was booked out permanently purely on name.
I would have been waiting 6-7 weeks if I wanted to use it for my final piece, which contained lots of spoken word.
I ended up booking a studio in week one and using my 7b.

I don't think the project suffered for it one bit and I got to kick back with a few beers and watch the snooker while every one scrabbled around near the submission deadlines.

 

[ecc83]

Well, FAR from my kind of music and I am now pretty deaf but that gal did not sound THAT good to me. Before she got onto the mic you could clearly hear room colouration. Does not bode well for the subsequent mix monitoring?

But worse, HTF can you make good music in a room with a noise floor of around 38dB??? It is not 50 or 60Hz hum so has to be a fan somewhere.

Call me old fashioned but when people don't speak and no keys are hit, in a 'pro' studio I expect to hear FA!

Dave.

 

[Massive Master]

Room acoustics, I see many professional artists recording without it and recording on tour buses and hotels. They don't seem to have a problem with it yet people mention it like it will make or break a recording. Take tinashe on this vid for example, she just has an acoustic shield.

And she needs it because I can tell just from the video that room sounds terrible. That said - She has that sort of voice I was referring to -- Soft, breathy, uber-dynamic, borderline operatic. Works well with a condenser.

But on to the two inarguable "rules" of audio --

1) You can have a million dollars in top-shelf equipment, years of intensive listening study and the highest level of innate talent -- but you will only ever hear as accurately as your monitoring chain allows you to hear.

2) You can have the most accurate and consistent monitoring chain ever created -- But it will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the space it's in allows it to be.

I guess my response towards the sm7b was due to a lack of understanding at the time. We didn't use it longer than a few hours. And when you constantly see industry artists using nothing but u87s and condensers, you'd see where the biased opinion is coming from.

Again - the U87 is a wonderful mic that has an (accuracy and consistency) matched by few others. Which is why it's absolutely wonderful for capturing exactly what's in front of it. It's just that it's a rare occasion that people want to do that with most "pop" vocal applications.

No doubt -- "back in the day" when I was a tracking/mixing guy, all the R&B (rap, hip-hop, etc.) guys always wanted the 87. So I'd do that setup I was referring to earlier and track with both mics and then let them choose which one where the vocal best "fit the mix" without even touching a knob. And as you'd probably guess, they'd pick the 7b. But when they were taking pictures, they were always with the 87. Take that how you want.