Question for semi-pro and small studio operators regarding fees.

I got asked to produce a backing track for a singer in a local band - a Carpenters song. I smiled. In the year before I'd done a whole Carpenters set for a tribute band and was very, very familiar with the music. The singer wanted the 'Carpenters Sound'. I smiled again. I'd worked with this singer before and knew that payment would probably be pitifully tiny for the work involved and once before she figured a box of chocolates fair compensation for a days work. I was just finishing one well paying job, so said fine - we can use the version I have recorded, and just replace the singers harmony tracks with your voice. All you need to do is duplicate each one. We can listen to each one, then you sing it and we replace each one, one by one. I knew, and she didn't, that there would be hundreds to do - oooooh, girls in town, oooooooo with these lyrics sung in perhaps 6 different lines, but each one double tracked. To be honest, I wondered how well it would actually work. The tribute band singer had a carpenters style voice and it worked rather well. The show singer's voice was not remotely carpenters. It took two days to do "close to you" to a usable standard, and from the outset I knew the tiny amount of money she had available - certainly not worth two days work, but I did it. Commercially that two days must have been worth what, best part of five hundred maybe? She had a budget of a quarter of that, and I knew in her head this would be 7 or 8 songs. Bands are even worse - they rarely have ANY money, want the earth and complain non-stop. My real work is on projects, but in my downtime, these other things cheer me up. I can spend days on rare and totally awful 19th century 'niche' composers with music that makes your hair go grey, so a bit of pop music can be a kind of happy interlude, even if it sucks at income generation.

The worst clients are those that demand the earth, pay peanuts and expect miracles!
 
I charge a straight hourly rate, no matter whether we’re recording mixing or editing, it does not matter. I have people bring the tracks all the time to use as a basis from which to make other tracks, and/or to fix with they’ve already got. I can make guesses up front depending on what they described to me, but ultimately it’s all an hourly rate.With that hourly rate is, depends on your local market.
If I am mastering or doing a mix without having the band there, I.e. they trust what I’m going to do at least as a starting point, I may quote a rate for several songs or an album. If I give them a basic mix and they want to bunch of stuff done differently, or want to be there for it then it’s at the straight hourly rate.
 
Why not just buy some gear and do it yourself. In the long run ,if you're dedicated and willing to learn, you'll save a lot of money.
 
My real work is on projects, but in my downtime, these other things cheer me up.

I have a fondness for outrageously unproductive recording projects. I have a lot of regular work that keeps me gainfully occupied, but I like filling the gaps with quirky things that pop up from time to time.
 
Why not just buy some gear and do it yourself. In the long run ,if you're dedicated and willing to learn, you'll save a lot of money.

That sounds like an easy approach. But...

30 years of recording in different situations, I am still learning....
 
"The worst clients are those that demand the earth, pay peanuts and expect miracles! "

I can't count the number of times this has been the only true thing to come out of sessions where the clients talk a big game and deliver on nothing both in their performance and in their pocketbooks. These are also the ones most likely to try and damage a studio's reputation with negative comments after the fact.

I've come to the conclusion that there are artists out there who have been convinced by friends and family that they are the next Elvis and when they hire the room they get a HUGE shock to their system that they just aren't capable of bringing it. So to cover the embarrassment they resort to being 'difficult' instead of becoming a student of their art and learning from what they hear.

Truth is....Mic don't lie......

I would rather work on spec for a talent who has a vision and no cash than an ego wrapped in hundred-dollar bills with zero chance of being a credible talent.
 
Why not just buy some gear and do it yourself. In the long run ,if you're dedicated and willing to learn, you'll save a lot of money.

Sorry. I had to laugh. No, really....It's a great idea! The key here in your assessment being "the long run"................
 
The price depends on

1) What your time is worth
2) What gear you are using and the depreciation of the gear
3) Where you are set up, rent, finance payments, electric, etc etc.

Regarding 1, Many years ago I used to charge a very low rate to bring the work in, I also hired a PA system into a venue and mixed there for extra money to subsidise the studio. I realised after 2 years that I was working for $5 and hour after all overheads. I was working 70 to 80 hours a week. I doubled my rate overnight, lost about a third of the work but made more money, a year later I doubled that rate, lost a little work but made more money, and had some me time. Now I don't even go to the studio for less than $55 hr (discount project rate) 3 hrs min. Or $80 hr for short work 3 hrs min. I actually get people ring me and say, "if you don't have any bookings can you record me for $10 an hour as you haven't got any work, I would rather stay away and go to the football.

Regarding 2, I am constantly replacing gear with newer gear, especially computers and software nowadays, I fix broken old gear that I still use, this is an expense that projects should cover.

Regarding 3, I have a factory unit with the studio, my storeroom (music gear), and workshop. I also rent part out as an office space. The good part of this is that My wife and I downsized our living space to a small apartment that we now own fully. I am paying the finance and rates, etc on the factory but its tax deductible.

So it very much depends on your situation. I still run the studio and my band as a part time business because it is difficult to make a real living as in the music world.

One thing I will say is that people that take on recording / music work at no payment or externally low payment create the impression that the music business is a hobby, so you are reducing any chance of any of us from making a living as the public expect us to do the work for free as "Its Fun". It takes years of experience to engineer sound, play an instrument and buy the equipment. Recently an arts centre advertised for a sound and lighting tech, the rate of pay offered was less than the cleaners get.

Sorry to rave on but I am sick of everyone thinking music work is not worth a decent pay, not pointing any fingers here.

Alan.
 
And it comes down to how good you are at what you do... You can have all the equipment in the world, and suck at working with musicians and getting the best out of them. Seems many forget that...

Performance is #1. What you are able to do to capture it well and make it something special is what many seem to either deny or find inconsequential. I find that the difference between those of us that care and the ones that just want to make a buck. Or even the ones that don't want to make anything.

The reality is you get what you pay for. Does not mean paying more is better...
 
I'm in a pretty enviable position that means the actual overhead for my studio is very low. I have this house to work with and I'm paying most of those costs for other reasons. Most of the gear that I have is really for my own use, too. There is a bit more in the maintenance and replacement budget just because more things are used more often by more people, but it's not too bad. So all I really need people to pay for is my time, and I don't ask them to pay me quite as much as my day job because I like doing this more. But that's only if people work within my relatively limited hours of operation and don't have real strenuous deadlines. If I actually had to take time away from my job or my kids to accommodate a project, I certainly would, but the rate definitely goes up.
 
So all I really need people to pay for is my time, and I don't ask them to pay me quite as much as my day job because I like doing this more. But that's only if people work within my relatively limited hours of operation and don't have real strenuous deadlines.

I do adjust my hourly rate dependent on the above, if I enjoy the project and there is no undue pressure put on me to do, unrealistic hours, unrealistic deadlines and unrealistic reward, I tend to do extra work on the project outside the hours so to speak.

Alan.
 
I'm in a pretty enviable position that means the actual overhead for my studio is very low. I have this house to work with and I'm paying most of those costs for other reasons. Most of the gear that I have is really for my own use, too. There is a bit more in the maintenance and replacement budget just because more things are used more often by more people, but it's not too bad. So all I really need people to pay for is my time, and I don't ask them to pay me quite as much as my day job because I like doing this more. But that's only if people work within my relatively limited hours of operation and don't have real strenuous deadlines. If I actually had to take time away from my job or my kids to accommodate a project, I certainly would, but the rate definitely goes up.

Agreed. My standard rate applies to everyone, but the amount that I do for free or less totally depends upon my involvement or maybe better put; excitement for the project.

Hell, I have done many things for members here for nothing just because it was fun. The reward is not always monetary.

And I also have a business that makes far more than I do in my studio. How the hell would I afford having it if I didn't?

But then I am getting older and the hard labor is not doing my body so well. I still have my ears. That is worth whatever a client has ability to pay.

Plus I don't make shit when a band comes in and nails their shit. But those are the most fun!!! :)
 
Why not just buy some gear and do it yourself. In the long run ,if you're dedicated and willing to learn, you'll save a lot of money.



Sorry. I had to laugh. No, really....It's a great idea! The key here in your assessment being "the long run"................
Just to be clear, I explained in post number 19 that I have indeed recorded songs in entirely, that in the past I've performed all steps to produce a finished song, and I have the gear one needs to get started, specifically a daw, an interface, some mics, and a good monitoring system. I simply feel that my recordings would be enhanced by having someone perform work in the one area where I seem to struggle the most, which is editing, and thought I'd get an opinion on what I might expect to pay for certain services.
 
Just to be clear, I explained in post number 19 that I have indeed recorded songs in entirely, that in the past I've performed all steps to produce a finished song, and I have the gear one needs to get started, specifically a daw, an interface, some mics, and a good monitoring system. I simply feel that my recordings would be enhanced by having someone perform work in the one area where I seem to struggle the most, which is editing, and thought I'd get an opinion on what I might expect to pay for certain services.

Again that is tough to say. It depends on the amount of experience the person doing the editing has and how quick they are at it.

I would charge the same $25 per hour for editing/vocal tuning/mixing. Maybe less depending on the amount of work that needs to be done.
 
Pricing is totally based on what you can get, and what the mkt will bear, based on your experience and/or reputation..
We live in a world where people have come to expect free everything.
So if you're not established wirh some kind of track record dont expect a 'fair wage'
Some unknown people are literally giving away their time. Much like an internship.
Gotta build it up.
I'm accepting a three moment tune. Basically cut, duplicate, and glue, beat float may exist because of no snap track, and the blending engineer has watchfulness to organize parts in the manner in which that they feel is ideal.

Expressing a harsh hourly rate shouldn't be that troublesome. On the off chance that a studio can't indicate a rate and some harsh estimate of time required for what was simply delineated, at that point I'd state I'd likely continue searching for somebody who can outfit a cost without a lot of trouble.
 
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