A question to recording engineers...
- Thread starter grn
- Start date
LeeRosario
New member
I speak for myself on this:
I would say at most. Lately the environment in my life has become a stock brokers nightmare in terms of trying to negotiate talents to record. You never want to overshoot your own abilities when you look for work. So if an engineer has the gear and the experience to back up his words, then you're dealing with a stock brokers nightmare.
However, talent and relationships go a long way in the engineering business. Sometimes more than experience and how much money you've invested under the hood of your studio car.
Occasionally, in that rare case that I find a band that I *gotta* have, I'll fight to swing them my way. As an engineer with commercial intentions, you're always building credentials off of the best talent you can find.
I would say at least is when you want to keep your skills sharpened. Which is why a grammy engineer down here by the name of Juan "Pericles" Cova is where he is. He just got involved with thousands of recordings in the analog days that got him places. And Im sure he didn't like all of them.
But I think the characteristics of a true engineer is constant curiosity for the sound matched to the music. Of course, you need the music knowledge to execute desicions effectively.
Other times, there is music you are excited to learn and take the challenge for. Which is why sometimes I find myself excited to mix for artists that I would never be caught dead listening to.
No, but logically it helps. Again, when you are up against an engineer that loves all walks of life, how do you compete with that? I was always lucky that I love everything in music. All styles of it. So naturally, when you love something, you're inclined to appreciate and learn from it.
But then you have your top engineers that are strictly work. The go to guy. He might not love it, but he understands it, the end check is going to be real good, so it's all business from that point on.
If you pay me 10 grand to mix one song for Willam Hung, then I'll be on that plane to California first thing tommorow morning.
Both.
When you're dealing as a first timer, you're actually dealing as the first emissary to the artist. Because if that album does well, all other sounds will have to follow in lue of the first. The sound that you helped define. However, you can imagine how incredibily hard it is to create the first sound for a band.
When you are comming around for a round two on a specific artist, you already know what to turn to and what they like. However, the pressure to outdo the last album is embedded in that session. Whether it's brought up or not.
When you work with a good band, you know they will grow. After a while you tend to pick out the ones with a future and the ones without one. You have to be able to grow with them. If not, they may simply be asking for the moon the next time they come back and you can't deliver.
Because by that point they have a larger fan base to live up to, bigger opportunities to obtain, bigger ego, better sense of self and bigger responsibilties to fill.
Much more might be expected from you, or you might simply be asked to "do whatever you did, again". So the bar is always raised in some way with every continued session.
I would say at most. Lately the environment in my life has become a stock brokers nightmare in terms of trying to negotiate talents to record. You never want to overshoot your own abilities when you look for work. So if an engineer has the gear and the experience to back up his words, then you're dealing with a stock brokers nightmare.
However, talent and relationships go a long way in the engineering business. Sometimes more than experience and how much money you've invested under the hood of your studio car.
Occasionally, in that rare case that I find a band that I *gotta* have, I'll fight to swing them my way. As an engineer with commercial intentions, you're always building credentials off of the best talent you can find.
I would say at least is when you want to keep your skills sharpened. Which is why a grammy engineer down here by the name of Juan "Pericles" Cova is where he is. He just got involved with thousands of recordings in the analog days that got him places. And Im sure he didn't like all of them.
But I think the characteristics of a true engineer is constant curiosity for the sound matched to the music. Of course, you need the music knowledge to execute desicions effectively.
Other times, there is music you are excited to learn and take the challenge for. Which is why sometimes I find myself excited to mix for artists that I would never be caught dead listening to.
No, but logically it helps. Again, when you are up against an engineer that loves all walks of life, how do you compete with that? I was always lucky that I love everything in music. All styles of it. So naturally, when you love something, you're inclined to appreciate and learn from it.
But then you have your top engineers that are strictly work. The go to guy. He might not love it, but he understands it, the end check is going to be real good, so it's all business from that point on.
If you pay me 10 grand to mix one song for Willam Hung, then I'll be on that plane to California first thing tommorow morning.
Both.
When you're dealing as a first timer, you're actually dealing as the first emissary to the artist. Because if that album does well, all other sounds will have to follow in lue of the first. The sound that you helped define. However, you can imagine how incredibily hard it is to create the first sound for a band.
When you are comming around for a round two on a specific artist, you already know what to turn to and what they like. However, the pressure to outdo the last album is embedded in that session. Whether it's brought up or not.
When you work with a good band, you know they will grow. After a while you tend to pick out the ones with a future and the ones without one. You have to be able to grow with them. If not, they may simply be asking for the moon the next time they come back and you can't deliver.
Because by that point they have a larger fan base to live up to, bigger opportunities to obtain, bigger ego, better sense of self and bigger responsibilties to fill.
Much more might be expected from you, or you might simply be asked to "do whatever you did, again". So the bar is always raised in some way with every continued session.
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DigitMus
Member
It has to intrigue me. That doesn't mean I have to love it (or even like it), but it can't be boring to me. It's a little difficult to elucidate exactly what I mean, but anything I record has to engage me in some way, even if it's by making me curious about why anyone would want to make (or listen to) it.
I presently have a private studio, so I can be quite picky about who and what I record. In the past I've operated a couple of small commercial studios, and quite frankly a lot of the clients were doing music that was so "generic" that I couldn't work up any enthusiasm about it. I think of it as "been there, done that" syndrome. If you don't have something new or interesting to say (musically), or at least an interesting way of saying it, why bother? Form a cover band and find a dive bar that'll let you play for the door - but don't go wasting time in a studio.
Just my 2¢
I presently have a private studio, so I can be quite picky about who and what I record. In the past I've operated a couple of small commercial studios, and quite frankly a lot of the clients were doing music that was so "generic" that I couldn't work up any enthusiasm about it. I think of it as "been there, done that" syndrome. If you don't have something new or interesting to say (musically), or at least an interesting way of saying it, why bother? Form a cover band and find a dive bar that'll let you play for the door - but don't go wasting time in a studio.
Just my 2¢
Chibi Nappa
New member
I don't have to like the music. I can make a good recording if I don't like the song.
I greatly prefer to like the music. It makes my job alot more fun. More likely than not the end result will be better if I like it, but it will be good one way or another.
I greatly prefer to like the music. It makes my job alot more fun. More likely than not the end result will be better if I like it, but it will be good one way or another.
grn said:
No.
It's a *JOB*.
Believe it or not, but after you've been doing the AE thing awhile it does become a job with the same pressures, drudgery, misery and horror as a regular job. Of course, it also has its downsides.
J/K. But seriously most sessions feel like work. If you do this for a living you can't wait for the perfect session to come along to pay your bills. It's about being professional which means suspending your judgement about the merit, talent, quality, relevance and so forth of your clients' music. Objectivity is probably the most underrated characteristic of the experienced AE.
That being said some of the best sounding material I've engineered are from genres I totally LOATHE.
grn said:
Heck no. If that were the case I would have done about 0.1% of the recordings I have done.
grn said:
It makes it more satisfying, but more challenging because you want to push the envelope as far as possible. Needless to say this happens very rarely.
ryanlikestorock
New member
I've found a reason to appreciate everything I've worked on. Step into the shoes of your client and figure out why they're making the album. Then, share that feeling for at least the length of the session. If you have a hard time listening to the recording a month after it's finished, you did a good *JOB* when you were recording it.
I've been really lucky and actually do love a lot of what I get to work on.
I've been really lucky and actually do love a lot of what I get to work on.
bennychico11
...
Cloneboy Studio said:
i agree.
I don't understand why people say they only record a certain kind of music. It limits your creative ability as an engineer, and why would you want to do that? Sound is sound, people. There are techniques that are applied to certain styles of music, but there's no rules that say you can't apply a punk style kick drum EQ to a hip hop kick.
There's a crap load of music out there, and chances of you liking every single song is slim...but at least respect the musicians and help offer your talents as an engineer to help their talents as a musician.
I do a lot of post production too, and sometimes I HATE doing that 30th car commercial in a week. But when I design that perfect sound effect that fits like a glove within the commercial...then I get to smile and pat myself on the back. It's a job. I'll probably never see the commercial that airs in a different state, never talk to the client, but I get it done to the best of my ability and move on to the next thing.
peopleperson
I'm so sorry.
I know an engineer who will develop a curious liking to the stuff he mixes simply because he mixes it. It's funny to me, cause if he randomly heard the stuff ahead of time, he'd find a way to hate it. A high degree of involvement will severly alter your natural opinion of the music. At any rate, yeah it's a job, even if the shitty boring emo band are patting themselves on the back for being so cutting edge and inside your giggling at how all their songs sound curiiously like late 80's heavy metal power ballads. I'd say about 70 percent of the stuff I've done would annoy the piss out of me if I had heard it as a casual listener. That remaining 30 percent however was three times as fun to engineer cause I dug the stuff so much as is.
scarboro78
NYC HIP-HOP AMBASSADOR
Man I hate working with artists who suck... It makes a 4 hour session draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggg... It's borderline torture.. !
Cult_Status02
New member
I'm worried about not likeing the music as well. I am opening my studio in about 2 1/2 weeks, and I have 5 groups lines up. The problem is, 3 of them are emo bands....I hate emo. Oh well, I'll let you know how I get around it, cause I have to pay rent! lol 
peopleperson
I'm so sorry.
Yep, been there. I recorded some emo nonsense not too long ago and I still very much enjoyed it even though as a listener, I'd rather eat my own tongue. They were really nice kids, could play reasonably well, and had good sounding gear. I love the mixing part so much, that I can detach from the music pretty easily.
Fishmed
Well-known member
I am totally with you on this one. People who cannot play their parts or write music for that fact should not be in the studio. I wish more bands would record themselves on a boom box to see what they actually sound like and fix things instead of looking surprise how bad they are as they hear themselves for the first time in the studio.scarboro78 said:
Although musicians with real talent can make a session great, working with people having fun personalities make for the best projects. It is good idea to develop a pleasant relationship before starting. Take notice on what makes them tick and use that to your advantage when you have to give them directions or suggestions. Humor can take the edge off of things since most people are up in nerves just being in the studio.
grn
Well-known member
Say you got a chance to record the artist you love? Do you think you would try to contribute too much or remain that neutral objective party? After the shock of being able to record their material, would you try to push them or keep them the same?
I'm asking all of this from an artist perspective. My group is starting to gain regional attention and we usually record all of our own material, but I think we'll have to go in to a studio within the next year if things keep going like they are.
Very interesting replies, I look forward to hearing more.
I'm asking all of this from an artist perspective. My group is starting to gain regional attention and we usually record all of our own material, but I think we'll have to go in to a studio within the next year if things keep going like they are.
Very interesting replies, I look forward to hearing more.
LeeRosario
New member
Well technically, when you're talking about the person who's giving you the creative push, that would be a producer.
However, alot of engineers who own thier studios tend to act as a producer in some aspects. Or if you ask him for his opinions.
So no matter how much I "love" an artist, I would never want to get in the way. Unless they give me the ok to go wild with my creativity.
Besides, you can always sneek in your adjustments.
A funny thing is always when the guy is like "dude...turn up the guitar a little more", so I turn up the monitor gain and suddenly he's like "that sounds so much better".
Then of course the other classic senario is when they act all high and mighty, "I need more high end on the guitar, god damn it!!!" Then suddenly he looks away, turns back at me and says, "That sounds way better....what did you do?"
And I'm like, "dude...I didnt even get a chance to do anything!"
Engineers are masters of thier own universe
However, alot of engineers who own thier studios tend to act as a producer in some aspects. Or if you ask him for his opinions.
So no matter how much I "love" an artist, I would never want to get in the way. Unless they give me the ok to go wild with my creativity.
Besides, you can always sneek in your adjustments.
A funny thing is always when the guy is like "dude...turn up the guitar a little more", so I turn up the monitor gain and suddenly he's like "that sounds so much better".
Then of course the other classic senario is when they act all high and mighty, "I need more high end on the guitar, god damn it!!!" Then suddenly he looks away, turns back at me and says, "That sounds way better....what did you do?"
And I'm like, "dude...I didnt even get a chance to do anything!"
Engineers are masters of thier own universe
grn said:
I reccomend going to a studio 100% for the same reason why a lawyer shouldn't represent themselves or a doctor operate on a member of their own family. Objectivity.
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
A difficult question to answer, because I am not sure it is the right question. I have recorded a variety of people, some talented, some not so talented, but the question of whether I like it or not doesn't come into it, except to the extent that there is usually something to grab your interest in whatever you record.
However, there have been times when I have found my attention wandering, which is not a good sign and not good form for someone who is being paid to do a job. Usually, though, this drift is from spending too long on one task, rather than the nature of the performance.
When people come in to record, I see my job as being to extract the most of what they have, no matter what they present, no matter what the style.
However, there have been times when I have found my attention wandering, which is not a good sign and not good form for someone who is being paid to do a job. Usually, though, this drift is from spending too long on one task, rather than the nature of the performance.
When people come in to record, I see my job as being to extract the most of what they have, no matter what they present, no matter what the style.
peopleperson
I'm so sorry.
grn said:
I'd remain completely neutral unless asked. It's not my band, nor my songs.
Well ... if you're a Doctor, is it important to like your patients ? Is it necessary? Does it make life easier?
If you're a mechanic, is it important to like the cars that you're fixing, or the people you're fixing them for?
It's human nature to enjoy ourselves more when we work on projects that we like, and with people we find agreeable. On the other hand, when you work for a living, you can't always pick and choose what you work on.
Think about your current job for a moment ... If you were to all of a sudden tell your boss "I don't like working the French Fry Machine. I don't like fries. You make them," ... how do you think your boss is going to react? Or if you were to suddenly decide not to deliver that pizza because you didn't like the tone of the person's voice when they ordered it. Or that you weren't going to sleep with a particular John because he wasn't dressed well enough for you.
.
If you're a mechanic, is it important to like the cars that you're fixing, or the people you're fixing them for?
It's human nature to enjoy ourselves more when we work on projects that we like, and with people we find agreeable. On the other hand, when you work for a living, you can't always pick and choose what you work on.
Think about your current job for a moment ... If you were to all of a sudden tell your boss "I don't like working the French Fry Machine. I don't like fries. You make them," ... how do you think your boss is going to react? Or if you were to suddenly decide not to deliver that pizza because you didn't like the tone of the person's voice when they ordered it. Or that you weren't going to sleep with a particular John because he wasn't dressed well enough for you.
.