Preamp for recording Beatles type music

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bouldersoundguy said:
Even when I play an A chord it's a little different each time.
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Yeah...especially on a guitar.
With six strings, it may sound like you are hitting all of them exactly the same way on each strum, but if you ever had a need to cut up a rhythm guitar track and attempt to piece in chord strums from one section to another or something similar...that's when you can really hear how different each strum can be.

I'm not sure why some people think it's all about the gear, and others will say it's all about skill...when it's really about both.
Contrary to what some think, you can't always "skill" your way to great results if you have nothing but low grade gear...and likewise, a piece of great gear can't make you sound great by itself.
Of course...there is some gear that has "that sound", and it will add itself to whatever you use it on...and there are great players that always sound the same, no matter the gear.
 
On the same equipment if I strum a chord and somebody else. It is technically the same sound. Only midi information is different. You arent going to confuse the 2 in my thread.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
On the same equipment if I strum a chord and somebody else. It is technically the same sound. Only midi information is different. You arent going to confuse the 2 in my thread.
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It is the same chord, but there are like a million ways probably that someon can play/strum that "same" chord...so it certainly will sound different.

I have NO idea what MIDI information has to do with that...?
I'm talking about plugging a guitar into an amp...there's no MIDI involved.
 
No it sounds the same. There are differences in the playing dynamics.

A old player piano is the sound. The player is only the dots or holes on the page. It will sound like the piano its played on.

Another sheet of paper with similar holes is going to sound very much the same.

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No word games. Sound is a basic term that describes what the gear outputs. You will just need to accept that for the purposes of my conversation.
 
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If there are differences in the dynamics...it won't sound the same. Also, it's not just dynamics, it's about which of the six strings on a guitar are hit sooner/later and harder/softer that will change the sound of the chord harmonics....so again, it won't sound the same.
I think you're maybe spending too much time in the MIDI world, and you're applying MIDI logic and MIDI values to everything...so it all will sound the same to you. MIDI information is limited and can only break things down from 0 to 127 values...but there are infinitely more with live music performance that is recorded.

Oh...I was working with MIDI since back in the early '90s...so I know very well about MIDI information, but I don't use it as much these days, and instead I record most of my tracks live. I might only have a couple of tracks where I use MIDI. :)
I get the feeling that you do most of your stuff with samples and MIDI...so I'm wondering why the high-end preamp discussion?

Anyway...getting back to the preamp discussion...I too am looking at the Chandler Limited stuff, and looking very hard at the REDD.47 preamp and/or the TG Microphone Cassette.
I have some nice pres already, but I want 1-2 that can do more aggressive things to the signal if desired.
 
People buy a brand and model of amp because the repeatability of the sound. A Fender amp has a Fender sound.

If it sounded different for everybody, it won't sell. It needs to sound the same for a variety of conditions.

If your A is different each time you rake the strings perhaps replace your tubes you have something wrong.

I broke it down for you look at the player piano. Sound is the gear.
 
If you're going to use a player piano and MIDI values as your explanation of why things will always sound the same...mmm...I think your perspective is rather simplified and somewhat myopic.

So in your mind, everyone that buys a Fender amp and plays it...they will all sound the same...???
You can get 10 different people to play the same A chord through the same Fender amp...and each person will play it a little differently...though of course, it will always be an A chord.

Honestly...if you're not seeing or hearing those subtle differences...I don't get then why you would be even considering a high end preamp like some of the Chandler gear, which is meant to give you many color options for the same signal source...but yielding different flavors of that same source.
By your logic...everything will sound the same going through that preamp...and that's not really the case.

Either you're not understanding that...or maybe you're just here to yank some chains...? :)
 
I got fed up ages ago - strumming a chord =MIDI information?? Where did the MIDI guitar come from.

Let's face it - buying the same equipment as somebody else does not make you sound like them. Never has, never will.

Going back to the Beatles. If you listen to the numerous studio recordings on youtube, you find many do NOT show 'special' results from the gear available in the studio. No amazing sounds, no reliance on clever electronics or ultra performing kit. Just the right mic in the right place with the right sound. You often hear Alan Parsons respond to questions on the preamps used at abbey rd be along the lines of "No idea what preamp we used for that - whatever was on the shelf".
 
There was a documentary a few weeks ago on Clapton. In that he was searching for an 'amp sound' and eventually got a Marshall (50W?) from a small music shop somewere in London.

Then, when he was in the studio he had a battle with the recording engineers who wanted to close mic the amp..."My sound is Out There! Put the ******g mic THERE!"

Mind you, he was well pissed most of the time.

SO many anecdotes about SO many things recordingwise. Who TF really knows what they did?

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
Let's face it - buying the same equipment as somebody else does not make you sound like them. Never has, never will.
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NO you are wrong. It sounds the same.

Your all being silly. Picking on playing dynamic is not the gears' sound. The same fender amp on all same settings will sound the same. Didn't yall ever pick up a band mates instrument and play it at practice. It will sound the same as when they do. WTF?

There are varying degrees of technical expertise but the general sound is the same. Look at the player piano. If your not figuring it out, youre not using my definition of sound as stated.

Yeah, and Clapton in that story was , 'out there' full o shit.

DIDNT YOU PLAY A BANDMATES INSTRUMENT? The same equipment on the same settings does not sound any different person to person.

Givin that you have the same level expertise at playing the A chord for comparison.

Also any music store will stand behind their fender amp model sounding the same as another fender amp of the same model from a different store.

Please provide proof that 2 different people playing the same chord FOR COMPARISON sounds different through the same equipment set the same. Take video.
 
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I rarely disagree really strongly, but on numerous shows I've done, I have been allowed to play other people's guitars through their systems and I KNOW for absolute certainty that the player is key in the sound. One of my friends plays bass for a well known Soul Icon - I have played his bass and I do not sound remotely like him, not a tiny bit. I even played Rick Parfitt's Strat once pre-soundcheck and I did NOT sound like him.

The person is key, not always the instrument.

It's not even just guitars - A Hammond organ is a kind of standard, but the player is able to make them individual. I was playing walk on the wild side with a double bass in a studio - I thought it sounded pretty close to Herbie Flowers' original, when he walked in and showed me how it really worked. His fingers vs mine, on my bass, and it sounded totally different.

I therefore will continue with my opinion.
 
rob aylestone said:
I rarely disagree really strongly, but on numerous shows I've done, I have been allowed to play other people's guitars through their systems and I KNOW for absolute certainty that the player is key in the sound. One of my friends plays bass for a well known Soul Icon - I have played his bass and I do not sound remotely like him, not a tiny bit. I even played Rick Parfitt's Strat once pre-soundcheck and I did NOT sound like him.

The person is key, not always the instrument.

It's not even just guitars - A Hammond organ is a kind of standard, but the player is able to make them individual. I was playing walk on the wild side with a double bass in a studio - I thought it sounded pretty close to Herbie Flowers' original, when he walked in and showed me how it really worked. His fingers vs mine, on my bass, and it sounded totally different.

I therefore will continue with my opinion.
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I agree Rob. My main listening is R3 and in the many classical reviews they are ALWAYS commenting upon the pianist's 'touch' or a violinist's 'tone'.

The great solo arists are not just technically brilliant but have something else, a 'gift'? 'Soul'? Something.

Dave.
 
LazerBeakShiek said:
DIDNT YOU PLAY A BANDMATES INSTRUMENT? The same equipment on the same settings does not sound any different person to person.
.
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Funny thing about that. Last August, I was playing guitar, switched to bass and handed my guitar to a friend from a band in Missouri. Same amp, cable, pedalboard and guitar. Guess what, he didn't sound the same as me. His chord voicing, picking style and knob twiddling changed everything. So, unless you know exactly what George Harrison played and exactly what his setting were when he recorded those guitar parts, AND can replicate his style, its not going to sound like George Harrison.

Regardless, all of this is pointless. The Beatles recorded on LOTS of different equipment over their career. They still sounded like the Beatles, so apparently there's a lot more to it.

You might watch this recent session. Its down the exact same "path" of what you said in your original post of trying to recreate a sound.
YouTube
 
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Go ahead use your cel phone to video. Just get the camera catching you handing your guitar off to a buddy playing a A chord the same way, through the same equipment. Same settings. Show a significant difference.

The JCM 800 at guitar center sounds the same as the one from Sam Ash. It does not change the sound the circuit makes person to person.

The player articulates the sound made by the gear. The sound sounds the same. The player is arranging where the sound happens and how much.
 
What?

make a video that demonstrates the concept your trying to discuss. Please . I definitey do not understand your point.

God dammit look at a player piano.
 
Play a keyboard .

Does the keyboards sound change for who plays it? Anybody can press the A key down similarly and it will play the same sound.
 
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