Is it possible?

[keith.rogers]

Wouldn't that be a nightmare trying to get all those individual recordings back in sync?

Not in a DAW.
The more likely problem you could run into is to much blending leak with them all together. This will depend on the accoustics from the space you will do it. ...
If something huge like this is done in a professional studio many times they will be grouped in seperate rooms, and some recorded stand-alone.

Hmm. Well, I don't think it would be trivial, mainly because you wouldn't have everyone's track starting at exactly the same moment, and because they'd be fairly localized, many of the waveforms wouldn't be easy to align visually. I'd want to use something like a clapboard every once in a while, probably.

And then there's the task of getting everyone (perhaps teaching them how, on multiple different devices) to send you their recording... (Yes, I'm a cup-half-empty kind of guy!)

But, if you can get the folks to try it just once while you're figuring out what solution works, at least you'd have a datapoint on the sound quality and how much work is involved. Costs nothing to try it!

In a studio when there's simultaneous recordings, all the tracks start/stop at the same time, and/or the performers may have lead-in/click stuff to sync to. I wouldn't compare that to what OP is trying to do.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Costs nothing to try it!

Honestly my main point. I agree that depending on the age of the participants the logistics could be a bit hairy. I wouldn't imagine that you'd want or need all 8-18 files in the mix even, but more options is more chances of a few of them actually working.

 

[ashcat_lt]

If they all play together while all recording the speed off all tracks is exactly the same. You only need to set a startingpoint...

Unfortunately, this is not always necessarily true. Different clocks in different devices can and do run at slightly different speeds, and how well they track together for how long is always a bit of a question. It might not be a couple samples over a reasonably short song, but if you try to line up an hours-long jam based on only one point, it can be noticeable by the time you get to the end.

It's best to line up a point toward the beginning and one toward the end. The front is aligned by just sliding it around, but you have to align the end by varispeeding (not time-stretching, the pitch needs to change also) the track. That usually means going back and forth but isn't usually that hard. In Reaper it's basically just Alt+Left drag on different parts of the audio item, but you have to make sure that "Preserve pitch..." is OFF in the Item Settings.

 

[ashcat_lt]

That's not really the same thing and actually more complicated than necessary. Like I said, the difference is in playback speed - it is pitch AND time. That means it's also about relative phase and in a multimic situation like this, THAT can be a big deal. Chopping up and aligning doesn't actually fix it. Time-stretch via resampling (really reasynthesis) makes it worse in a lot of ways. The problem is playback speed and the way to fix it is playback speed.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Without the AND.

No. The recorder captures (say) 44.1K samples per second, but if it's played back on device that disagrees on how long a second actually is, it will affect both time and pitch. It's exactly like playing a 33rpm record at 45rpm, except the difference is nowhere near as extreme, so the pitch change is mostly not noticeable.

You actually can't separate pitch from time without resynthesis. Your favorite toy may not call it resinthesis, but that is actually what it's doing. Some algorithms do that better on some sources than others, but they will all cause artifacts that get worse the further you stretch. Far more importantly, it MUST mess up the phase response, which is not gonna do you any favors.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Remind that the playback mp3 is 44.1 too.

But if you play those 44.1K samples back in 0.9999 seconds, there will be a slight pitch change upwards. If you record 44.1K samples in 1.0 seconds on one device, 0.999 seconds on another, and 1.001 seconds on a third, and then play them all back so that they all take exactly 1 second, they will all disagree on pitch and only one of them will be correct. None of them on their own will be far enough off to notice, but when you put them together you'll have a mess, especially if the recording lasts for a significant length of time. If they all recorded the same thing, there will be all kinds of phase weirdness before you ever notice them falling out of time. You're either completely misunderstanding what I'm trying to say, or you're just plain wrong. Or both, I suppose.

I guess i've proven that it is possible to change time without changing pitch.

Did you miss the part about "...without resynthesis?" You used a resynthesis algorithm, which proves nothing in the context of my argument.

 

[miroslav]

I guess i've proven that it is possible to change time without changing pitch.

Next we'll be able to travel into the future.

 

[mixsit]

Collecting, then importing, then aligning -with no easy ref points.. That would get old real fast. Then finally you get to move on to the sorting and mixing part..

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

2) Or perhaps something like the Tascam DP-24SD (on sale at Musicians Friend right now for $419.00) which is a stand alone digital recorder which has eight inputs and is designed to move song/track files quickly and easily to and from a computer. Of course this option would require cables and mics.

And now the Tascam DP-24SD is down to $399.00.

 

[cyrano]

I'd listen to Ashcat.

I often get files from different sources. Usually no problem, until you get long recordings. Than it can turn into a real pita.

The only way to find out if it's feasible in your case, is to try it out. And since you can do that without much cost, it's a sane starting point.

It would also allow you to maybe try out the mics you already have, provided you buy the necessary adapter cables, or preamp. Any idea what's in your mic cabinet?

 

[ashcat_lt]

In the past with tapes it would have even been a huger problem[/URL]

In the past, with tape, it was nearly impossible. You get all 8 people to set their personal cassette recorder near them and record, then try to line all those up and you'll probably end up on suicide watch. I can't imagine how you'd possibly actually get it done in only analog TBH. You might be able to get close enough for punk rock in a modern DAW, but I still think you'd slit your wrists first.

 

[Lt. Bob]

1) One of the better handheld PCM recorders that typically have decent quality stereo condenser mics built in

.

that's what I would do ..... I use a Tascam DR-05 ($100) and get excellent recordings of gigs all the time.

Fact is, dealing with a bunch of mics is very distracting and would likely interfere with your playing and enjoyment.

 

[JDRagsdale]

I have an old Porta-04 that I use with a $30 Behringer V220 or whatever it is, to transfer analog recordings to my PC using RCA cables from the 04 to the Behringer to computer USB, and then edit and convert them to wav or whatever file type I need with audacity. Then lining them up in Reaper is a snap. Tape hiss, noise and all kinds of warbly tape artifacts are another thing entirely though. And if all you have is a final stereo mix-down to work with, mastering is nearly impossible

I have lots of recordings that sound just fine on tape (considering the medium anyhow), but I can't get them to not sound like turds digitally. And you can only polish a turd so much. Quality in = quality out.

But it's useful to preserve them, because tape will degrade over time.

Back in the day though, it typically WAS a nightmare between bounces and the 4 track limitation of tape LOL.

I'd just buy a Zoom or Tascam portable digital recording interface, and a bunch of Shure, AKG or MXL cardiod or hyper-cardiod mics with small footprint stands and probably be under $600 total, maybe under $400 if you buy used mics. Cable mess underfoot, yes. But gaffers tape will fix that if they'll allow you to use it at your venue.

Just my .02, what you want to do sounds like a great idea!

 

[Chili]

Man this thread has gone off on a tangent. Sorry OP. If you stick with the first few replies, you'll get what you want. I still stand by what I said in post #7. You can find 4 channel interfaces as well.

Then as Keith.Rogers and Lt Bob said, the handheld recorders with external mic inputs will get you 4 channels. Oh, and forget all that nonsense about using phones. It complicates what should be a straight forward task.

that's what I would do ..... I use a Tascam DR-05 ($100) and get excellent recordings of gigs all the time.

Fact is, dealing with a bunch of mics is very distracting and would likely interfere with your playing and enjoyment.

I use the Tascam DR40 to record our rehearsals. Pull one channel off the PA mixer for vocals and get usable results. Not great but serves our purpose.

 

[Toastedgoat]

It was mentioned earlier, look at a good digital mixer. The Midas MR series has very good preamps, plus parametric EQ, compression, and other effects built in. USB into a computer and it becomes an audio interface for recording. Has phantom power for condenser mics if needed. Works with any DAW.

 

[keith.rogers]

Indeed one needs some minor skills to get this done.
...

I think most of us make our suggestions and move on. This can be harder for some than others.

Look, nobody's saying it's impossible, and I'm all on board for trying it. But when you say it's "minor skills" could you show me the YouTube video of multiple (4 or more, minimum), raw smartphone audio tracks (important: of a circle of musicians) being shared and sync'd? Ideally this would be one you've done, and I expect no longer than 3 or 4 minutes.

My problem (as someone who tries to do field audio recording) is it can be hard to develop a workflow that lends itself to doing this repeatedly in these kinds of jams, where the players come and go, and not everyone may be interested in (or even willing to) help with their phones. I've been to enough bluegrass jams of (us mostly old) folks, and trust me, this is not a group that I would count on to even have smartphones, let alone be adept in recording audio and sharing. Plus, they came to play music, not fiddle with their phones!

 

[mixsit]

Alterman, sounds like you've dropped in and aligned tracks -a lot more than I. Mostly I've only run across it a few times where folks have sent in overdubs, without the project track start points to align to. 'Sliding/aligning buy ear seems was way harder than I'd have expected :>)
You mentioned a 'clap marker too. That would solve that, and would you mean that to be sort of necessary?
Thanks

 

[Lt. Bob]

I do it by ear with the track grid as base. Only by ear is hard, especially if some corrections are needed.
For length corrections i start to calculate with the times.

But a sound recorded by all the tracks together at the beginning or end could help if not that experienced with this yet. Then you have a reference point from that sound and it's peak in the track to adjust all tracks. Set those reference both at the beginning and ending, and your tracks are aligned (in this case question, as they still are recorded simultaniously).

yep ...... I'll use a 'click' like say, 2 drum sticks hitting each other .... a nice short duration that makes it easy to align.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Ashcat has the correct answer regarding the multiple phone method. Just change the playback speed and let the pitch shift along with it. That exactly reverses the effect of mismatched ADC clocks. Changing the speed while retaining the pitch is the less desirable approach: uses more processing power for a less accurate result.

 

[thabaer]

Ashcat has the correct answer regarding the multiple phone method. Just change the playback speed and let the pitch shift along with it. That exactly reverses the effect of mismatched ADC clocks.....snip

Have to nip this one in the bud.

The last thing I want is to get dragged into a fundamentals debate, but it's not correct if you're saying playing data from multiple phones back with a single clock will fix the pitch. The whole reason clocks must be locked during recording is that they will play back out of pitch when replayed with a synched DAC clock.

Sorry if that's not what you meant, just couldn't go on to the next thread in the HR email without saying something.


As to the OP's initial query, I recall seeing some 19 mic sphere being barked about that is supposed to have software that can do what she wants, and it's suppsed to be less than her $1k budget. I'm blanking on the name, it's something like Zymol or Zyxel but not a car care or networking product.

Edit: wow first post after joining years ago....