Portable Recorder / Mics

dave111

New member
Hi -

I'm trying to figure out the best option for purchasing a portable recorder and mics. I'm mainly looking to record solo piano right now, but I will probably also use it in other situations down the road, such as jazz combo.

I've been looking at the zoom H5 and H6, as well as the zoom F4 and F6 and the Sound Devices MixPre-3 II. For mics, I'm mainly looking at the zoom capsules, the Audio-Technica AT2022 X/Y Stereo Microphone, and 2 Rode NT5 mics with additional omni capsules. I've also considered the Tascam DR-100mkIII.

I'd like to keep the budget as low as possible, but at the max it's around $1,000 for recorder and mics.

I'm wondering how important 32-bit float and getting to 192 sample rate are. If I don't need these, it seems I can be ok with the zoom h 5 or 6 might be better off investing the rest in mics. On the other hand, it might be nice to have the option to use the the zoom f or mix pre as an interface with my laptop when I have it for more serious projects.

I definitely need 2 tracks, but I think I would probably need 3 tracks at the most. I'm trying to balance portability and ease of set up and take down with quality.

Any advice or other options I might consider?

Thanks -
 
You do not need 192k sample rate or even 96k for live recording IMO/IME. 32-bit (F6) has the ability to save recordings that might be lost due to clipping, but that is primarily in a video shoot where retakes might be difficult/expensive/impossible. I've never had a problem recording music with either an H6 or F8/F8n, assuming you have the ability to check and set levels properly, and set the limiters, too. In addition, not every DAW supports 32-bit import (AFAIK/yet), so that's worth investigating.

I used an H6 for several years. Add the XLR attachment and it's 6 tracks in (the attachment cannot provide power, though, so only suitable for line or dynamic mic connects). Terrific value for almost any use, though lacks some of the features of Zoom's field recorder line.

Your statement about recording a combo someday and needing 3 tracks at most doesn't compute for me.

The F4 is discontinued. I would not buy one today. Either get the H6, F6 or F8n would be my suggestion in the Zoom line. Sound Devices has a very good rep with their pro-level equipment, and Zoom has pressured them to getting out the lower priced line. Looks to be getting good reviews, so if it suits your current and future needs, I'd consider it.

The built-in capsule mics are something I, frankly, only rarely used. I just find that the positioning of the mics with the recorder attached was too unwieldy. I can't see how it would work conveniently if you tried to mic a combo, and then you need to consider mic types and input count. That's what drove me to the F8, because I found 6 was just keeping me from doing things once in a while. Of course, 95% of the time, I don't need 8, but when you do, you do.

I probably would skip the stereo mic. I just don't get those things. Too much of the time you need to be close mic'd because of noise, and then the stereo part is largely lost. Might work for a drum overhead, or an acoustic piano in a nice room, but the rest of the time, not so much. The RØDE pair is very good for some things, but if you want to record a piano, I'd let some others weigh in on that choice. (I do use a pair of SDCs pretty regularly at home for acoustic guitars.)
 
Hey - thanks for the info -

Recording combo would just be for personal use, maybe one or two mics for the overall sound, not like a professional recording w/ one or more mics on each instrument. Serious recording of that would require a lot of gear I would think (more mics than I can buy right now).

My primary concern is recording myself playing acoustic grand piano away from home. So i was thinking the stereo mic and something like the F6 would be really easy and quick to set up. I know some pianists who just use the H4N like that, so I thought this would be similar but a step up. Setting up two mics in x-y or AB or close micing near the piano's plate seems like a good bit more work to set up. I don't have experience with this though, so maybe I'm off base.
 
Ok, well, I think maybe you mean the H6, and not F6 (field recorder, no built-in mics)?

Yes, the H4/5/6 type recorders work for that, and any of those could be supplemented with a pair of external mics, like the NT5s for recording a larger group if you wanted to try that. I would not supplement the built-in XY of the H4n, or H6 XY or MS capsule, with another stereo mic, though. If you want a better XY setup, I'd suggest get a bar to put the NT5s on would be my suggestion.

Everything you need right here :)

Rode NT5 Cardioid Condenser Mic (Matched Pair) & Recorder

K&M 23550 Adjustable Microphone Bar 23550-500-55 B&H Photo Video
 
hey - yeah either the F6 or the H5 or H6 plus the stereo mic was the idea - a step up from using the zoom capsules or built in recorder mics. I guess one stereo mic vs. two mics on a mic bar isn't that much different in terms of setup though.

Thanks for the input!
 
I have an H4n and it works well. You can run two external mics along with the two internals. The internal mics are fine, but I don't think they hold up to a good external. If I was buying today, I would probably go for the H6 just to have the option of 4 externals. I ended up getting a R24 for situations where I need more tracks. If you're doing jazz combos, the extra inputs could be handy.

As for mics, there a lots of options these days. This past year, I've picked up a pair of Rode M5s and a pair of Lauten LA120s. I've had a pair of Studio Projects B3s for about 7-8 years. They all make good recordings, just variations in the sound. A friend has the NT5s, and they are very nice.

As the others have said, 192K is not necessary. I run my Zooms at 44k /24bit and they sound very good. Once I get the recordings, I pull the SD card and dump it into Reaper for any adjustments. I started buying 32G SD cards in multiples of 5. I use them like we used to use tape. After dumping the files, I put it in an envelope for archival purposes.

That package that Keith posted would certainly work. If you wanted to go to $1000, I would go to the R24 for $500 (you can often get a 15-20% discount) and the NT5s to start, You can pick up an aluminum case at Harbor Freight, add a bit of foam and have the whole thing in a small lightweight suitcase.
 
Thanks for the input. I was thinking more about small diaphragm condensers. Do you prefer large diaphragm ones? I don't love the acoustics in my room at home, so I figured smalls would be better.
 
Unfortunately, I don't play piano and have never gotten to record a grand. Most times, tho, I see SDCs on grand pianos. I think I get a fuller sound from LDCs in most cases but it really depends on the mic. I did a test recently with an AKG P170, M5, LA120, NT1 and SM57 on acoustic guitar. Each had a distinct sound. Its in this thread (holiday mic sales). I chose those mics because they were around $100, except for the NT1.

I felt the NT1 was the closest to the sound of the actual guitar, but any would have been usable. I thought the LA120 was my second choice, and I had picked up a pair for $260 on a Christmas sale. They come with both cardioid and omni capsules so that was nice.
 
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