Playing To Other Recorded Tracks and Click Track. How?

chapelhillbilly

New member
Ok all,

I'm really in a clusterf**K here. First off let me run my gear down for you:

M-Audo Delta 44 w/ Breakout Box (4 Ins and 4 Outs)
Behringer 4 track mixer
Adobe Audition 1.0


Ok, so here's the deal. I have the two main outs running from the mixer into the two ins fo the breakout box.

What I want to do is to be able to listen to a click track and previous recorded tracks in my headphones while being able to hear while recording a new track. Does this make sense?

Anyway, I tried running two cables from the out back into the mixer but the problem with that is that while recording a new track, whatever I'm hearing in the phones (previous track adn click track) is being recorded to the new track as well.

My head is swimming here guys! What do I do????
 
Double click the speaker on your lower right toolbar and click options/properties/recording and make sure only the source you are using is checked.
 
chapelhillbilly said:
...whatever I'm hearing in the phones (previous track adn click track) is being recorded to the new track as well.
The exact same thing is happening to me. I currently have a post under the "Computer Recording and Soundcards" forum ("Track Bleed" thread) and am not having much luck solving it. I hope you don't mind me piggy-backing your problem, but I think our solutions might be the same. I'll share what I know so far (searching and feedback). First, here's my connections...

- Mixer Alt 3/4 L/R outs > Audiophile L/R ins
(small Wharfedale R-1604 mixer, no channel inserts. Chapelhillbilly, your Behringer doesn't have channel inserts either?)
- Audiophile L/R outs > Mixer Ch 5/6 L/R ins
- Mixer Control Room Outs > Monitors

The above set-up is based on referencing this site http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_hookup_a_mixer.htm, including the drawing http://www.tweakheadz.com/images/nmodisetup.jpg

- "AKG K240DF Studio Monitor" headphones plugged into headphones jack on mixer

The AKGs are semi-closed back. During a test I had the volume low and had my wife listen to hear if sound was coming from the phones. She couldn't hear anything. Therefore, the phones are not bleeding, so they're not the problem. Also, the bleeding happens whether the headphones are plugged into the mixer or not. I tried recording a test vocal track while my nearfields were turned down and the headphones not plugged into the mixer. The bleed occurred regardless. I even muted some tracks for different tests and only the unmuted tracks bled onto the test vocal track.

Some are suggesting a problem with a setting in the Windows Mixer (double click the speaker on lower right toolbar and click options/properties/recording) and making sure "What you hear" is not selected). I can't access this setting, and I'm told the Windows Mixer is not my problem since using the Delta control panel.

My newb mind is telling me that somehow, my mic/line-in channels are picking up what's coming back into the mixer (Ch 5/6) from the Audiophile outs. I've tried connecting into other jacks on the mixer (e.g. Stereo EFX Returns, Aux Sends -- that's all I have left to try). Either that, or some wrong setting in the Delta control panel that may be a sort of equivalent to the Windows mixer "What you hear" problem.

I don't know what to do. Aarrgghh!!!
 
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Cheeky Monkey said:
Some are suggesting a problem with a setting in the Windows Mixer (double click the speaker on lower right toolbar and click options/properties/recording) and making sure "What you hear" is not selected). I can't access this setting, and I'm told the Windows Mixer is not my problem since using the Delta control panel.
What is checked when you access options/properties/recording?
 
NYMorningstar said:
What is checked when you access options/properties/recording?
Nothing. When I access that screen, there is nothing in the list (unlike under playback where there are few selections in the list).
 
I got the answer for us Cheeky!

Samson Audio c-que 8: http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?itemid=25230

I picked this up today and will be hooking it up tomorrow evening. I will be sure to post here and let you know how it's working.

The guy at SamAsh basically told me that you run two balanced cables from two outs on the breakout box into this amp. This will give you the ability to not only hear playback but hear what you are recording at the same time and click track.

I'm REALLY curious to see how this will work. I'll be sure to let you know!
 
chapelhillbilly said:
I got the answer for us Cheeky!

Samson Audio c-que 8: http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?itemid=25230

I picked this up today and will be hooking it up tomorrow evening. I will be sure to post here and let you know how it's working.

The guy at SamAsh basically told me that you run two balanced cables from two outs on the breakout box into this amp. This will give you the ability to not only hear playback but hear what you are recording at the same time and click track.

I'm REALLY curious to see how this will work. I'll be sure to let you know!
I can't see how a headphone amp is a solution, for me at least. Are you really sure this is your answer? I'm experiencing crosstalk/bleed (whatever the correct term is) on audio tracks whether my headphones are plugged into the mixer or not. Besides, I bought the mixer to route things properly and not have to worry about such things. I don't see that I should have to buy some other device for this particular problem. Surely others with small mixers aren't, are they? chapelhillbilly, really make sure this is what you need before you buy it.
 
NYMorningstar said:
I don't think you need a headphone amp to do what you want to do. You just have to route things correctly. Go to http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Delta44_Manual.pdf and figure out how.
As for me, I have the Audiophile 2496 and I've researched the manual and can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Who knows, maybe it's just my entry-level mixer (Wharfedale R-1604) that does this and there isn't a soudcard setting or cable routing that's going to change it. I hope I'm wrong though. I just don't know what else to try.
 
What kind of mixer have you got? There's bound to be a way.

In the short term, you could output from the delta direct to your monitors to get around your bleed issues. My old Koss monitors had a headphone jack built in. That was real handy
 
chapelhillbilly said:
I got the answer for us Cheeky!

Samson Audio c-que 8: http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?itemid=25230

I picked this up today and will be hooking it up tomorrow evening. I will be sure to post here and let you know how it's working.

The guy at SamAsh basically told me that you run two balanced cables from two outs on the breakout box into this amp. This will give you the ability to not only hear playback but hear what you are recording at the same time and click track.

I'm REALLY curious to see how this will work. I'll be sure to let you know!
chapelhillbilly, did you get to try this headphone amp yet? If so, did it stop the crosstalk/track bleed?

One thing I've noticed about my AKG K240 headphones is that they're not very loud at all, even with all the posiible volume controls pretty-much all the way up. Despite this crosstalk/ track bleed problem, could this under-volume of my headphones require a headphone amp? If so, I wonder why the mixer wouldn't be enough to provide sufficient volume on the headphones?
 
Cheeky Monkey said:
chapelhillbilly, did you get to try this headphone amp yet? If so, did it stop the crosstalk/track bleed?

One thing I've noticed about my AKG K240 headphones is that they're not very loud at all, even with all the posiible volume controls pretty-much all the way up. Despite this crosstalk/ track bleed problem, could this under-volume of my headphones require a headphone amp? If so, I wonder why the mixer wouldn't be enough to provide sufficient volume on the headphones?



Cheeky,

This TOTALLY helped my situation and even bettered it in the long run. With the headphone amp, I have 4 channels. This means that when my buddy comes over and lays down his mandolin tracks on my CD, he can be listening with headphones on while I have headphones on at the same time doing the mix. Again, same with two vocalists doing harmonies. Two different headphone channels that can be independantly adjusted for volume.

I had NO crosstalk/bleed whatsoever. I just adjusted my volume and levels as need to assure I was getting a good mix in the headphones. Trust me, it was the best 100 bucks I've spent!
 
chapelhillbilly said:
Cheeky,

This TOTALLY helped my situation and even bettered it in the long run. With the headphone amp, I have 4 channels. This means that when my buddy comes over and lays down his mandolin tracks on my CD, he can be listening with headphones on while I have headphones on at the same time doing the mix. Again, same with two vocalists doing harmonies. Two different headphone channels that can be independantly adjusted for volume.

I had NO crosstalk/bleed whatsoever. I just adjusted my volume and levels as need to assure I was getting a good mix in the headphones. Trust me, it was the best 100 bucks I've spent!
Well, I've tried every cable routing configuration on my mixer and no matter what I try, I'm still getting crosstalk/track bleed. So, I guess I have to look to a headphone amp solution.

I assume that what the headphone amp does is allow you to connect from the soundcard outs directly into the headphone amp ins so you can monitor through the phones (or up to 4 pairs of phones with the unit you bought)without having to go back into the mixer (which seems to be the problem). Am I right?

Now, in going this route, what about using the nearfields for mixing? Do you have to disconnect the soundcard outs from the headphone amp and run them through the mixer (assuming the monitors are fed by the Control Room outs), or can you connect the monitors to the headphone amp also?

Boy, am I ever a newb to all this. This has to be the most basic shit. I feel so stupid! But...I'll get there eventually!!!
 
Cheeky,

Don't feel bad about being a newb. I'm STILL a newb to all this and I am just learning all of this and taking it in as I go. Still much more ground to cover but I'm learning lots.

To answer your question, the headphone amp has two ins (L & R) and I just ran two balanced cables from outs 1 and 2 of the breakout box right into the headphone amp. Make sure you adjust your levels accordingly in the M-Audio control panel. You are using the M-Audio Delta 44 correct?

I hope this helps you a good bit. I know it helped me out and I had a great test run last night. Feel free to PM your e-mail address and we can keep in closer contact w/ each other!

Peace,
Don
www.donontheweb.com
 
chapelhillbilly said:
Cheeky,

Don't feel bad about being a newb. I'm STILL a newb to all this and I am just learning all of this and taking it in as I go. Still much more ground to cover but I'm learning lots.

To answer your question, the headphone amp has two ins (L & R) and I just ran two balanced cables from outs 1 and 2 of the breakout box right into the headphone amp. Make sure you adjust your levels accordingly in the M-Audio control panel. You are using the M-Audio Delta 44 correct?

I hope this helps you a good bit. I know it helped me out and I had a great test run last night. Feel free to PM your e-mail address and we can keep in closer contact w/ each other!

Peace,
Don
www.donontheweb.com
No Don, I'm using the M-Audio Audiophile 2496, but I doubt that matters much w/r/t this problem. How do you have your speakers (nearfields or otherwise) connected? Through the mixer?
 
With the Wharfdale you should have the output of the card going to the tape in of the mixer. Make sure you don't have the tape in going to the main mix, send it to the control room and use the headphones and not the monitors when recording. Send the main mix to your soundcard when you record. This should work.

Oh by the way, I seen everyone tell you about 'What You Hear' on the windows mixer. You only have that if you use a creative soundcard I believe, like a soundblaster. More advanced cards have their own software mixers that don't use the one with windows. That's why you aren't able to find the options everyone is talking about. Hope this helps.
 
NYMorningstar said:
With the Wharfdale you should have the output of the card going to the tape in of the mixer. Make sure you don't have the tape in going to the main mix, send it to the control room and use the headphones and not the monitors when recording. Send the main mix to your soundcard when you record. This should work.

Oh by the way, I seen everyone tell you about 'What You Hear' on the windows mixer. You only have that if you use a creative soundcard I believe, like a soundblaster. More advanced cards have their own software mixers that don't use the one with windows. That's why you aren't able to find the options everyone is talking about. Hope this helps.
Many thanks. Of all the advice offered by HR.com members and my own research, your "Tape In" recommendation here turned out to solve the problem perfectly as follows...

Audiophile L/R RCA outs > mixer Tape Ins L/R RCA, and making sure the 2-Tr button is pressed.

A few hours ago in another thread, a good, but less perfect option was offered as follows (didn't require any change in my cable routing)...

Audiophile L/R RCA outs > mixer Ch 5/6 (or other free ch) L/R 1/4", but what I had to change was to pan hard left on Ch 5/6. The only problem with this method is that I hear the previously recorded tracks only in the left ear, the track being recorded in the right.

Now I can get-on with recording and experimenting with recording quality issues. Right now, I'm happy.

Thanks again.
 
Cheeky,

I'm glad this worked for you man. I hope I wasn't stearing you wrong but I'm SUPER happy with my choice to go with a headphone amplifyer...
 
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