Phantom power?

M

muchjimmy

New member
Hello everyone,

I have been playing music for a while, and would like to record some of it. Now, I managed to get the sound of my keyboard and electric guitar working on my computer (with Logic Pro X). However, my favorite instruments are the acoustic guitar and the harmonica. To record these, I bought a pair of Samson c02 microphones. I tried to set them up by using a cable with XLR on one end and on the other side what I believe is called RCA or tulp (Devine VA9030). I plugged that cable into my Behringer UCA222, which connects to the computer via USB.

I'm not getting any sound. I read that I need 48v phantom power to power these microphones. Maybe that's the solution and nothing can go wrong, but before I buy a phantom power device I thought it might be wise to ask the people who know more about this kind of thing. So in short, my question is: will a phantom power device get the microphones to work, and will it be properly set up like that?

Hopefully anyone knows the answer to this and is willing to take the time to help me. Thanks in advance and feel free to ask anything if additional info is needed.
 
Good thing you asked first. Condenser mics generally need phantom power, and microphones in general need microphone preamplifiers to boost their signals. You have several options. First of all, don't try to solve this piecemeal. If you just buy a phantom power supply you'll still need a mic preamp, which will likely have phantom power built in. Theoretically you could get a preamp and connect it to your 222, but by far the better option is to buy a proper recording audio interface, which will have all the facilities you need to record microphones, monitor live inputs and play back from your recording software, all at once. As an example, check out the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. There are others but that gives you an idea what to look for.
 
First of all, thanks for the quick response!

So if I understand you correctly, the audio interface would be all I need? And would I connect it directly to my computer via USB or to the 222 via RCA? I'm quite new to all these devices, so it's not completely to me clear if the 222 would still be needed.
 
Hi,
Your 222 is an audio interface, of sorts, but it doesn't have built in microphone preamplifiers or phantom power.
The Scarlett 2i2 that BSG suggested is an example of an 'all in one' interface; It covers microphone preamplifer, phantom power, headphone+main outputs, etc.
The 2i2 is USB, although there are other options out there.

The idea is that you buy it instead of several individual pieces.
It would completely replace the 222 and/or any built in sound devices that your computer has.
 
An audio interface would replace the 222 and take over all its functions and provide the additional functions to let you use those mics.

It's a 2-input interface. There are USB (and Thunderbolt and PCI slot) interfaces that offer more simultaneous inputs if that's what you need. The 222 is still useful if you want to connect consumer audio devices that use RCA connectors at consumer line level.
 
The 222 is a line level two in, two out device to get decent quality stereo audio in and out of a computer. It's not really the kind of thing that can handle microphone level, which is MUCH lower, so really it's best to get the proper tool for the job, as they've explained above. These have proper XLR connectors for the microphones and supply the correct voltage. If you buy a phantom power supply, it's still too low for that interface, so you need yet another device. Bite the bullet and buy the Scarlet - its a decent enough budget end product that will be fine.
 
I never expected so many replies in such a short time. You guys have been a big help. Better start saving up some money :)
 
Hey guys,

I looked up the various interfaces. The 2i2 seems to be the most popular option. However, there seem to be a couple of cheaper options. Since I'm a student and on quite a tight budget, these might be more appropriate if they are similar in quality. For example, I found:
- Presonus AudioBox USB 96 €88
- Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD €59

These interfaces seem similar to the 2i2 to me, looking at specs and some reviews. Only the 2i2 will cost me about €120.
Can anyone tell me if it would be alright to go for these cheaper options? Or is it worth investing a bit more in the 2i2?
 
I shall probably get some stick for this but..Jimmy, all you REALLY need at the moment is a small mixer.

The 222 (I have had several 202s) is not a bad little device for the money and you are obviously using it ok at the moment.
A mixer such as the Behringer Xeny 802 would give you two very decent mic pres with 48V and two other stereo line inputs for other sources. Yes, the next result is a "panned" stereo track but you can at least have all the kit connected all the time. Better mixers such as those from Soundcraft and allen & heath will give you high impedance guitar inputs.

N.B. You do NOT want a "USB" mixer. You could check out Cash Generator shops and charity shops.

If you still want to save for an AI do investigate the Steinberg UR22 and offerings by Tascam. Don't go dirt cheap. MIDI is also a very useful feature. Even if you do get an AI later on, a wee mixer is always a handy thing to have around.

Dave.
 
A small mixer would work. I don't know if it would be much cheaper than an interface (which has the mixing function built in), and then you have to figure out the routing and cabling. I suppose a used one could be cheaper.
 
The only thing I would add to this discussion of buying a new AI, would be to make sure that your USB port will supply enough power for the AI's Phantom Power to work, or make sure your AI can be powered from something other than USB. I have one of those Behringer UPhoria 202HD units that I use with my Laptop when traveling and Phantom Power won't work with my Laptop's USB ports. Just something to be aware of...
 
Ujn Hunter said:
The only thing I would add to this discussion of buying a new AI, would be to make sure that your USB port will supply enough power for the AI's Phantom Power to work, or make sure your AI can be powered from something other than USB. I have one of those Behringer UPhoria 202HD units that I use with my Laptop when traveling and Phantom Power won't work with my Laptop's USB ports. Just something to be aware of...
Click to expand...

I have read of this problem before and it always surprises me? I have a pretty old g6 HP I3 and the two USB 2.0 ports can easily power my NI KA6 which has far more going on than an 2i2. Then there is USB 3.0. That should easily juice any bus powered AI because it can (or should!) supply 900mA.

Have you delved "under the bonnet" for the computer's power settings? I am not that PC cute but I bet someone can walk you through it.

Re The Mixer! Yes, a judgment call I agree but OP already has an interface he knows and uses and a mixer is just an easy way to bolt on pre amps, spook juice and, things NO budget AI has, EQ and panning.

Yes again, the 222 is 16 bits but he will get a noise floor around -85dBFS and the pres in a $50 mixer are generally better than in a $5) AI. If he can pickup a second hand one for $25 ish? Win-win.

That combination will get him going with mics (forgot! TRUE zero latency monitoring!) and if the bug bites he can save for an RME! As I said, a mixer is always handy, talkback, door stop....

Dave.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
A small mixer would work. I don't know if it would be much cheaper than an interface (which has the mixing function built in), and then you have to figure out the routing and cabling. I suppose a used one could be cheaper.
Click to expand...

Don't want to be sniffy mate but budget AIs at least generally don't run to a "mixer" DAWs do.
In any case I am not really thinking of a mixer as a "mixer" more an easy way to get 48V equipped mic pres.

Dave.
 
Ok guys I read all of your comments. Thanks again for taking the time to help. So I will try to summarize what I understand of it:
The advantage of buying a AI is not having to struggle with cables and multiple devices and I won't quickly have to buy something new later on, but for the same amount of money I can buy a mixer that will do what I need right now and will have better quality. Is that kind of correct?

And should I get a device that doesn't connect through USB? My computer is a macbook pro so I can also use thunderbolt.
 
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muchjimmy said:
Ok guys I read all of your comments. Thanks again for taking the time to help. So I will try to summarize what I understand of it:
The advantage of buying a AI is not having to struggle with cables and multiple devices and I won't quickly have to buy something new later on, but for the same amount of money I can buy a mixer that will do what I need right now and will have better quality. Is that kind of correct?

And should I get a device that doesn't connect through USB? My computer is a macbook pro so I can also use thunderbolt.
Click to expand...

Not quite right. The mixer +222 setup will give the sane quality that the 222 always did (assuming you have it setup properly. They are pretty good if you do that) but the mixer fixes the mic pre amp phantom power issue and, IMHO, give some advantages including easy connection of other devices.

Use of a mixer does not really add any complexity? A stereo pair of RCA cables to and from 222 and mixer, all the rest you would need with an AI anyway.

But! I MUST make this clear. I would NOT have suggested a mixer had you NOT had the 222 to hand. From ground zero, an AI is the best choice.

Thunderbolt? No budget AI so festooned to my knowledge. the cable will cost you at least another 222!
Superbly fast super high capacity, super low latency protocol but really expensive so far and of course it will be a long time before you can use such an AI on a Windows machine. Many Win PCs NEVER got Fussywire!

USB 2.0 is easily good enough for even a top end projjy setup and USB 3.0 puts the icing on it.

Dave.

Dave.
 
The mixer could be a good option.

Butttt...

I'm pretty certain it would be hard to find a decent mixer for the price of a Behringer UMC202HD (€59) and the OP is on a tight budget.
 
So after taking everything into account and reading reviews online, I decided to buy the UMC202HD. I tested it and my ears love it. I can immediately hear my guitar in my headphones while playing with no delay at all. Hope it keeps working. For the last time, thanks to all of you for not letting me make a wrong decision :)
 
muchjimmy said:
So after taking everything into account and reading reviews online, I decided to buy the UMC202HD. I tested it and my ears love it. I can immediately hear my guitar in my headphones while playing with no delay at all. Hope it keeps working. For the last time, thanks to all of you for not letting me make a wrong decision :)
Click to expand...

You are most welcome and it is very nice to get a thank you and an update. My "diverissemente" into mixers WAS intended to help and possibly save you a few bob. Do not hesitate to ask if anything else crops up.

Dave.
 
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