Opera singer (tenor) recording at home, questions

jussidemetrios

New member
Hi everybody,

I’m new to this forum, even though I have followed and read many posts. I thought it was about time to ask a question.
I’m an opera singer, tenor, on the more dramatic side(louder),
I have started recording some things at home.
I began with a small Shure mic that attached to iPhone, now I have an H6 which was a huge upgrade.
I’m thinking of investing in a mic. Not sure whether ribbon, large or small diaphragm condenser. My budget would be under $1k.
I was going for something like the Rode K2 or Neumann Tlm 102, then I read that ribbon mics may be best at capturing voices especially opera singing.
Any advice would be more than welcome, I’m sorry if the information provided is incomplete in any way.
 
What is an H6?

Either the Rode or the Neumann would work.

I like Rode because of (a) value for money, (b) quality of the equipment, and (c) ten year warranty and level of service.

If you are interested i ribbon mikes, then you might consider the Rode NTR.
 
Hi and thank you for your reply. By H6 I mean the Zoom H6 field recorder. It has phantom power, up to 4 mics at once. It also has an xy and Omni mic.
 
Singing pop or opera? The problem is that if you are singing opera at opera volume, you need to move away from the mic a little more than for pop, and this allows the sound of the room to intrude - if it is a nice sounding room, all is good, but most are too small, and you hear this. The omni mic may may things considerably worse. The truth is that while all these mics are subtly different, the acoustic space makes so much contribution you need to experiment. Vet famous tenors have sang into small and large diaphragm mics and EQ sorts them out. A concert hall or small church helps, a 2m x 2m box room doesn't. What is your space like?
 
As others have said, you will need some distance from the mic for a powerful (operatic/trained) voice and that means the mic will pick up a lot of the room, which is rarely to your benefit in home recording environments, unless you've got a space that quite large and sounds very good. I'd suggest spending a lot on treating the recording space (repeat after me, "do not use foam") so that the room echoes do not get recorded. After you've done that, any good mic will probably work - [MENTION=45599]gecko zzed[/MENTION]'s recommendations are always worth listening to, [MENTION=178786]rob aylestone[/MENTION] might add the AKG 414. (You might additionally use the MS capsule from the Zoom, and see what the "S" component is after decoding, to get some idea of what the room is adding, e.g., to evaluate room/treatment.)
 
Good evening gents,

Thanks once again for all the responses.
To answer some of the questions, I will be recording opera, or opera style songs, in my apartment living room. It’s not small, it’s about 500sqft, but not a really high ceiling, and I’m pretty sure it does not help the recording in any way, as you mentioned. Soundproofing the living room probably will not be an option currently. I dunno If using those sound proof booths that I have seen around the mic would work?
So I’m your experience would there be a reason to chose a ribbon over a large condenser? Should I just go for eg the Rode K2? Or would I be fine with the NT1 as well? The K2 is a tube mic from what I read, would that be better for opera? Or does it simply come down to post.
 
No mike is necessarily better than any other for opera. Some mikes may suit particular types of voice better than others, but you won't know which suits yours until you try them.

Over the years I have tried out a variety, progressively improving my mike locker. However, not too long ago I bought the re-invented Rode NT1, and it now sits permanently on the stand. It can be used for just about anything, and I prefer it to the AKGC 414 that cost me five times more.
 
Thanks man. So would be it be worth it to invest the extra $$$ for the K2 for let’s say if I record in a great sounding space (due to its flexibility, cardioid, Omni) or should I just go for the Nt1 and use the xy or ms that the H6 has to capture that? Sorry for all the questions but I’m trying to put my mind around this and save a buck if possible.
 
The best thing about advice is that you can ignore it. That's just as well, because most advice is wrong.

Given all that, were I to be in your shoes, I would go for a combination of economical and quality at this stage, and for me that would be the new NT1.

The way operas (and therefore their arias) were written reflects the architecture of opera houses at the time, and, from a listener's perspective, the performance consists of the singing and the space in which the the singer performs: they reinforce each other.

To recreate that you need a sympathetic space, or you need to recreate it within the computer. The latter is, these days, probably easier than the former.

However, should you find a church or similar with lively acoustics, it is not hard to experiment with mike placement to get the right amount of direct and ambient sound. You don't necessarily need a different polar pattern. YOu can also use a combination of the Zoom mikes plus other mikes to do this.
 
The 'science' if you like of getting close to the mic in a poor acoustic is to increase the ratio of direct sound to 'room' sound. But, you will be louder than the common crooner! Thus even with the mic a bit further away you should get a decent sound, IMHO.

I would also go for an XY CO-Incident pair. My limited experiments with son on guitar and clarinet showed us that stereo gave a more natural result of the space? What I mean is, I think, yes, we get the less than ideal room but at least is SOUNDS like a room and not a horrible boxy space?

Dave.
 
I would probably side with Gecko here and go with an economically priced large diaphragm condenser.(I like the Aston Origin)

I am a classically trained vocalist, but I sing pop and rock, and my voice can get quite loud. There are many songs I must stand at least 3 feet from the mic. You will probably need more like 6 ft for true operatic singing.

May I ask, what do you not like about the sound you get from the H6's built in mics?
 
If you intend recorin just one voice, then X/Y is wrong - You could sing into the left, or the right capsule, but singing into the middle between is poor. As mentioned, the MS capsule attached would give you the mid signal which could work, and the side signal, which you probably won't like. I'd have a listen to what you have and that will steer your next purchase. No point discarding what you have without working with it a bit.
 
Hi guys, again thanks a lot for all the responses and info.
I like the H6 and it’s sound, however from what I’ve read you probably are better off using a condenser mic for the vocals, and the H6 can provide a secondary source of sound. Which is actually the issue in a way. I record at home, sometimes at my colleague’s place where he has a piano. With just the H6 I.e. one source of sound I feel like I may be losing out in what can be done ultimately. Especially for when I manage to get a nice space to record in I’d like to have a few more options, in order to get a more professional result.
As I have an opera company myself, it would be great to possess some equipment capable of getting a good result without having to always outsource.
I should say that I ordered an NT1 today, and my associate is probably going to order the NT5 for more versatility.
Thank you Gecko especially for your input. It really influenced my purchase.
So my plan is when I record at home, I’ll use the NT1. In a certain concert space where the patrons have been kind enough to let us use from time to time, the thought was(based also on all your input) to capture my voice with the NT1 A couple of feet away and place the H6 10-20 feet away with the MS and use the S to capture ambience. If my buddy gets the NT5 we could maybe use those for the room sound, NT1 for voice and XY for the piano?
 
Hi guys, again thanks a lot for all the responses and info.
I like the H6 and it’s sound, however from what I’ve read you probably are better off using a condenser mic for the vocals, and the H6 can provide a secondary source of sound. Which is actually the issue in a way. I record at home, sometimes at my colleague’s place where he has a piano. With just the H6 I.e. one source of sound I feel like I may be losing out in what can be done ultimately. Especially for when I manage to get a nice space to record in I’d like to have a few more options, in order to get a more professional result.
As I have an opera company myself, it would be great to possess some equipment capable of getting a good result without having to always outsource.
I should say that I ordered an NT1 today, and my associate is probably going to order the NT5 for more versatility.
Thank you Gecko especially for your input. It really influenced my purchase.
So my plan is when I record at home, I’ll use the NT1. In a certain concert space where the patrons have been kind enough to let us use from time to time, the thought was(based also on all your input) to capture my voice with the NT1 A couple of feet away and place the H6 10-20 feet away with the MS and use the S to capture ambience. If my buddy gets the NT5 we could maybe use those for the room sound, NT1 for voice and XY for the piano?

Gotcha, sounds like those setups could produce some pretty nice sounds to work with.
 
...
So my plan is when I record at home, I’ll use the NT1. In a certain concert space where the patrons have been kind enough to let us use from time to time, the thought was(based also on all your input) to capture my voice with the NT1 A couple of feet away and place the H6 10-20 feet away with the MS and use the S to capture ambience. If my buddy gets the NT5 we could maybe use those for the room sound, NT1 for voice and XY for the piano?
I'd probably leave the H6 out in the room and have your friend get a pair of NT5s for the piano.
 
Room sound with one mic in mono is a bit pointless, the portable recorder would do a better job. My own recording history makes me buy mics in pairs. Over the years all the single mics get less use. Pairs offer so much more scope. If you like the nt1 then a pair of mics is a better next purchase. Another similar mic offers very little.
 
The H6 is a condenser mic, is it not? (Or rather two SDCs)

An LDC would probably give better results, but they wouldn't be fundamentally different. Are you able to describe specifically what concerns with your current mics you hope to rectify? If you're getting bad room sounds, the LDC won't fix that. (Neither would a ribbon I suspect, but I'm not very familiar with those). If it's the frequency curve of your voice then the best mic will have be very specific.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but for a dramatic tenor, an SM-58 or equivalent might be a very good choice. It's very directional and very proximity-based. So there's likely a sweet spot (less than a foot away) where all the best parts of your voice are picked up but almost no room noise or mouth noise.
 
Thanks again everybody for the feedback. Waiting on my NT1, my collaborating partner got his NT5s. We tried them out yesterday on his piano.. wow. Really professional sounding, I was blown away. He connected them to his Zoom H6 and plugged that into the laptop with Reaper. Guys really great sound. I’d dare say CD quality.
Can’t wait to get my mic and put together some recordings. If you’d like I’d be happy to share.
I’ll definitely look into getting an SM58 as well, it’s not pricey and I’m curious to hear it!
 
I think you'll also like the NT1. I find it to be more "neutral" than a lot of condenser mics that have an exaggerated top end.

I don't have the H6, but a I do have and H4n, and the mics don't sound anywhere close to my external mics.
 
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