Mixing Midi/Electronic with Real Instruments/Sounds

KWN

New member
I've been writing and recording mostly blues based rock and pop songs at home for several years, but every so often I get myself into concept music projects. My ideas and tastes are pretty old school; I'm not into Hip-hop or Beats or anything like that.

I don't have much in the way of expensive equipment or instruments, so I work within certain limits. I feel like that's where a lot of creativity goes into the arrangement, and when it comes to the kind of concept music I'm producing there are virtually no rules. Often I rely fairly heavily on midi instruments in my DAW, sometimes to create the illusion of real instruments in a large studio or on a stage (which, of course, requires a fair amount of processing), while at other times I might even go for a fake sound if I'm going for a more surreal atmosphere. Lots of processing via plug-ins and occasional outboard components.

Whatever the case, I usually like to keep a human element by incorporating a few real instruments in the mix, especially on the prominent tracks. Guitar, bass, some percussion, and of course my own voice. Backing this with ambient instruments and pads seems to create a blend that works quite well for the style of music I am working on.

I was just wondering what ideas and techniques other folks here use when blending the midi world with real audio.
 
Other than BPM so your notes line up to the music, (you could play the MIDI live and not edit), I treat MIDI instruments like I treat real instruments. Once it comes out with a sound, it is just like any other analog signal.
 
Other than BPM so your notes line up to the music, (you could play the MIDI live and not edit), I treat MIDI instruments like I treat real instruments. Once it comes out with a sound, it is just like any other analog signal.

That pretty much goes without saying. A signal is a signal, regardless of the source.

Where I was going with this was the hope of getting a discussion going about examples of specific mixes that have worked out well for us. I always enjoy a good discussion!
 
Well, as you get into digital mixing in general, really doesn't matter the source, everything takes on a new view. I for example have used sounds from crickets I have recorded, to give me a a highs like a tambourine, used a diesel engine for a pulse for a song, cicadas for effects.

What I am saying is, it has nothing to do with MIDI. I have sampled sounds, tuned the sound and then used MIDI to create an instrument using a sampler engine. I also use loops for echos as plugins don't always give me the pattern I want.

While looping is often done in electronic music, it doesn't have to be used exactly like that. Cutting and looping are probably the greatest part of using a DAW as far as creation. But when you say MIDI, that to me is a different conversation that many people do want to have. While it may be obvious in your reply, from the question as stated it wasn't.

Based on that, are you still talking MIDI or using various different sounds whether they be MIDI or loops? Just trying to understand where you are trying to take the conversation.
 
In wish we could stop the references to MIDI when describing music in a machine. MIDI is just a protocol for getting notes from one place to another, and control of these devices is now amazingly editable. MIDI is no more important than refine to guitar cables or USB or FireWire as part of the music process. The problems with simulation of real instruments are to do with how you play them now, rather than the sounds,Manichaeism can be amazing. Since I bought some expensive sampling packages, I've discovered my string sounds can be hard to detect as not a recording, IF and only if, I play them like a string player. It's takes a long time to get good with keyswitching, plus using faders to control attack, dynamics and modulation, plus pitch bend and after touch. I still cannot do realistic guitar solos,made spite the sounds and amp processing. My MIDI equipped guitar sounds like a synth, and never sounds like a guitar recorded with a mic. Sometimes it's just simpler and quicker to record a real instrument.
 
In wish we could stop the references to MIDI when describing music in a machine. MIDI is just a protocol for getting notes from one place to another, and control of these devices is now amazingly editable. MIDI is no more important than refine to guitar cables or USB or FireWire as part of the music process. The problems with simulation of real instruments are to do with how you play them now, rather than the sounds,Manichaeism can be amazing. Since I bought some expensive sampling packages, I've discovered my string sounds can be hard to detect as not a recording, IF and only if, I play them like a string player. It's takes a long time to get good with keyswitching, plus using faders to control attack, dynamics and modulation, plus pitch bend and after touch. I still cannot do realistic guitar solos,made spite the sounds and amp processing. My MIDI equipped guitar sounds like a synth, and never sounds like a guitar recorded with a mic. Sometimes it's just simpler and quicker to record a real instrument.

Excellent points, all around.

First--yes you're absolutely right re: my misuse of the term midi. I guess I generalized a bit. I've gotten used to people around me calling sampled instruments midi instruments.

My experiences with sampled instruments are similar to yours. Strings generally sound pretty authentic depending on how I apply them. Unfortunately brass doesn't work as well for me. As far as guitar solos go, I have the same issues as you, but my actual guitar skills are somewhat limited, so that's when I have to call someone in.
 
Sadly, I have to admit to cheating. The one I did three days ago, was a comp of about twenty attempts, but in the end, nobody knows?
 
I think there’s an aesthetic context in which synthetic instruments are okay as substitutes for real instruments. (Like chiptunes for example or half of leonard cohen’s catalog?) but I think it’s usually best to treat synthesizers as their own voice, not as substitutes for real instruments. But I’d second (or add to) rob’s note that modulaton is as important as timbre in either case. Like in “this must be the place” from stop making sense, played straight on its own that synth would sound pretty meh. But with some modulation (in general, not just mod wheel) it comes to life.
 
I believe the end justifies the means. If the music sounds authentic and sincere, does it really matter how the sounds were conceived? Well if you're a multi instrumentalist--yes, I get that. But if you're limited in a number of ways (except in the imagination department) it should be ok.

When I released my last album a few years ago, I had a listening party for my family. As one particular song was playing, my sister's boyfriend walked up to me and asked how I was able to get my hands on a Hammond B3!
 
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