Metrenome / Click Tracks

D

dres

New member
I know this is going to be contraversial but I am sick to death of using a click track .... it is totally ruining my groove.

Some history:
I must have played thousands of times, live without any timing help on various instruments such as drums guitar trumpet violin and voice over a period of 15+ years.... the majority of this in bands.

Now when I start recording at home, seriously in the last 3 years, I assume I must use the click track because A) It's there and B) everyone *seems* to record this way. But being unaccustomed to playing with a click has caused endless grief....

Typically what happens when I record myself with the click is I can groove with the click just fine untill a change in the song occurs ,ie verse to chorus or some climax in the song. Subconciously I speed up fractionally... I then realise this and spend a few bars gradually pulling it back, during which time the groove is completely wrecked as for instance the played beat shifts from being behind the beat to in front of the beat.

I persisted recording with a click for an entire year when recording my first album and it really shows.... there are these rhythmically tense sections while my brain tracks the click... It's quite subtle but very annoying.

I've recorded a few songs recently without a click and I feel the results are much better and far more listenable. Recently on advice from this forum I tried the click again. After coming close to getting the groove OK there are still these tense artifacts creeping in. So I've come to the conclusion that for me the click is evil and I will aviod it at all costs.

I know it clearly depends on performer and song style ... but for me it doesn't work and I believe I'm better off without it. Am I insane ? maybe ? But I just hope this post might help someone else avoid all the wasted time the "click" has cost me !

My 2 cents
 
using a drumbeat in place of the click track might help get the groove back,a click is pretty stiff ,and depending on what you have the click to,doesn't allow for the in between notes to be in rhythm.i mean a 16th note click track is easier to groove to rather than 1/4 note click,but if you are doing tracks that will eventually be adding stuff to later,it helps to just have a drum machine do an 8 count,then to play a beat that is grooving to what you intend it to do.i used to do this,so once i lay the original track,it has the feel i need to lay down the other tracks,then when i laid down the drums(or drum machine in my case,via midi)everything seems to sync up perfectly all staying within that groove.but that was when i would lay down song ideas,or just try doing guitar or bass tracks first.if you're doing solo stuff ,then as long as you got good rhythm, then it don't matter if you speed up or slow down,it is all dependant on the song ,right?i've done blues duets wher i do guitar with a harmonica player,despite no click track,we played to a mutual kind of groove,and i know we weren't keeping perfect time,but humans do happen to speed up and slow down,unless you're vinnie coiliutta,or steve gadd,or some crazy ass insane drummer.
 
Dres, I can play with a click track without slowing or speeding up and I still think they suck, they give the song a mechanical feel which seems impossible to lose, I myself record with a friend and we lay the first two tracks down together to create the groove then add the the rest.
 
HA!!!

You think you've got it bad... :p

I record my guitar tracks to a click and I also have problems with the whole "mechanical feel" and the issue of marginally speeding up and then having to re-adjust to the click... but...

it's worse when you're a drummer... :p I've tried to record drums to a click and it's HELL ON EARTH.. especially when a climactic part comes.. You're gettin' all excited, and you want to just crash down on the set with all your might..... but noooooooo.... you've gotta lay back and make sure you follow that stupid click... :mad:

death to the click, I say. :mad:

WATYF
 
In my expirience if you don't have a band that played together for a while you have to use click for recording. Otherwise you will constantly try and catch the accents that the drummer did. Even if you initialy played with the drummer it's easier if the tempo is steady. And yes I hate the click too.

cheers
 
I try to use a click but its hard for me to use, like WATYF, the drums are a bitch.

My songs have lots of tempo change throughout the song so its hard to construct a click track that follows the changes and I never get it perfect. I could record each part seperately and edit them together later but thats just another way of "ruining the groove" for me.

It sucks when you don't have other musicians at your hands and feet, it would be easier if I could play with others frequently.
 
depending on the type of music can also make the click lame, such accents on top of the beat for a drummer just won't feel the same with a click and anything with a blues or jazz feels just isn't happening with a click either I have a drum machine that I prefer to play the parts by hand rather then program a beat just to get rid of that mechanical feel.
And yes I agree for the people who can't play with a click tempo is a bitch I would suggest practicing simple things with a metronome and your inner click will make the click unnecessary.
 
I had problems recently, after working out 8 songs to a click track, when I tried to re-record some old songs with an old music buddy and realized all the subtle changes just as you described (between verses and chorus, etc). I got so frustrated it's why I'm typing this and not working on anything new...
 
Wow.... seems like I'm not the only one.

Funny thing is I have a friend who taught me drums for a while who's a superb percussionist, studied for 4 years at university level AND got honours. I actually paid him to lay down some drum track for my songs, and you know what ? He couldn't keep time to the click either. I spent many hours tweaking individual hits here and there ..... total waste of time. All I managed to do was make him sound like a machine.

Quite honestly I've given up on the "cut and paste" method of song arrangement that cubase sells itself on... I'm leaving that to the dance/techno crowd. Just wish I'd worked it out sooner !

Pinky: don't give up... kill the click and learn to ENJOY playing music again !
 
Playing or recording with a click track or metronome can be incredibly frustrating - inevitably you are going to get ahead or behind. As an experienced musician, you should be able to keep time without the use of a metronome. Relax, feel your heart beat - it's a really good internal keeper of time. :)
 
Oh Dres Oh Dres, how many more times should I say this?????

If your music calls for seuqences and samplers, sorry there is no ther way to keep all the instruments tight if they dont record to a click. the real trick is to practice playing to it a lot. A time will come when you are not consciously thinking about it. Actually I play live with my band and we use sequenced tracks, of course I play with a click track live, otherwise it would be impossible for me to just listen to the sequences especially because most of it are pads and other non rhythmical stuff. Actually when I´m playing I really cant hear the click anymore, this means that i´m totally on top of it and locked tight, the same effect happens when I practice at home, after a while I dont hear it anymore, in fact if I can hear it, i´m actually ahead or behind the groove. that is when things get interesting because that way i can practice to play a bit behind or a bit ahead to give some space and air to the songs i´m playing
 
alonso said:
how many more times should I say this?????
Click to expand...
Uh.. had you already said that a first time...??? :confused:

:p

I don't disagree with you. When I did a tour back in '99 I played with a group who did everything to click track and sequencers. I liked it. Don't get me wrong. I intend to play with a click/sequencer one day. When I do professional work it will most definitely be to a click and will have sequencers if the song calls for it. But I'll always want to be able to play, at some point, without the restraint of perfect time, so I can jam and give it those subtle change-ups that make it so fun to play.

WATYF
 
Last edited:
The first time was a while back in another posting where I told Dres the benefits to playing and practicing to a click.... Of course i agree that there are times when you dont want or need a click and it is good just to let things flow with the moment, especially in jams, but in 99% of recordings I think this is not the case
 
One of the drummers that does a lot of recordings in my studio (and is to say at least pretty darn good, even personal friend of Joe Percaro) teached me that the trick is not to try to keep in sync with the click, but to play around it...just like a red line across the song.

After hearing him play to click I normally tell others to just give it up. It's an artform. most drummers try to stay in sync, and as soon as they loose it overcorrect. So instead of (measered in BPM) this :

120..121...120..120..119..119..120..121..120

You get :

120..120..121..121..122..122..123..123..118..118..119
 
Personally,I'm a slave to the clock!Everything must be tight.I write my stuff from the ground up either with a click,or with a computer generated drum track.I pretty much do metal stuff,which is supposed to sound somewhat mechanical.I love the precision that the click allows.
There certainly no rule that you have to use it,though.Whatever works.One happy medium that might help is to map your song out,using whatever instrument might be the "main"voice,played to a click.Gradually build up the arrangement and rely less on the click.Thats what I do.That first track is tedious and not very fun to perform,but as the track evolves,it becomes more inspiring,adding
more pieces to the puzzle.That "main" voice can disappear after a time,to the point where subsequent overdubs are really playing to the song,rather than the click.
Or you can forgo the click altogether,if that's what you like!
 
Being a drummer, unless the music has extreme tempo changes, it's not that hard to play to the click. I've learned to play "around" it! I think a lot of people concentrate too hard on hitting that click every time. It's important to learn how to play behind the beat and in front of the beat as well as playing tight or loose! it takes a while to get used to this but once you find the feel it's like 2nd nature.
Neil said in an article that if he didn't hear the click, he was dead on. That doesn't work all the time because the groove has to breath with the rest of the song. It makes a point though that he's not listening for it! It's only there for reference if needed.
Have fun with it!!
RF
 
The only reason i realy use a click track is it makes editing alot easier in Logic. Maybe i shouldnt spend this time editing and should get it ALL right while recording but im happy with it this way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top