Low mic signal on accoustic guitar

F

Fusioninspace

New member
I have an ongoing problem with low input signals when I record my steel or gut stringed guitars. Really a problem on the gut-string.... When I push the levels on the equipment to acceptable levels, I get a lot of amp noise/hiss - At low volume, I end up with tape hiss... Seems like I can't get a hot enough signal without really pushing the ART MP or turning up the preamp in my compressor. I've got the mic pointed at the 12th fret about three inches away.

Do I need a better mic? Any suggestions will be appreciated!

My gear for this application:
CAD-95 condenser mic
ART MP pre
dbx 166? dual compressor
Tascam 414 (analog/tape)

Thanks, Fusion
 
well i tried acoustic guit. in the control room yesterday and yes it was noisy with the pc going , a laptop , plus rack gear ... but i somehow managed to get the signal to noise ratio in favour of the signal... Thats basically how i record acoustic too , at the twelth fret.. Listen to how loud the guitar is when u play it normally , then listen to the room noise .. If there even close to being the same then definetly find another room .. I havent used the cad , im using an NT1 an its super sensitive but with a bit of moving round, slight gating an compression i managed to record in a noisy environment.. Definetly not what u want for something your going to use but i was just messing with a few things on the acoustic. Hey do you know where the noise is definetly coming from? U mentioned the hiss , definetly dont want that , then u said the amp noise , sounds like you might have to get the signal to noise ratio higher by a)playing louder
b)moving the mike closer
c)try a quieter room
i dont really think gating works too good on strings but i might be wrong , thats just my opinion.. well good luck ..
 
I've used the ART MP and a dbx166 to record nylon guitars with pretty good results (with the computer in the room). However I was using an NT2 (Rode) and going to hard-disk. From what I checked out, looks like the CAD you're using should have enough output so the difference might be the 414 (I had one of those too and actually miss the sound of analog tape).
Here are a few things that might help (which you might know anyways):

-Use the best quality tape and run it at the highest speed.

-Make sure your heads are clean.

-Hit the tape with as hot a signal as you can without distorting (which is quite a bit hotter on analog tape than most people think). ALWAYS do this! (even if the part's gonna be low in the MIX).

-DO NOT use the +20dB button on the MP unless you absolutely need to. IF you turn the input knob all the way up and still need more, then and ONLY then, should you use that button. (I think it adds another amplifier into the signal path and that adds {noticeably} more noise than just turning the knob to the right.)

-Use a balanced signal from begining to end. The dbx166 accepts a TRS balanced signal and also sends it out that way. You'll have to get/make XLR female to 1/4" TRS, and XLR male to 1/4" TRS cables so it'll look like this:

Mic -> ART MP XLR in
ART MP XLR out -> dbx166 TRS(balanced) in
dbx166 TRS(balanced) out -> Tascam 414 XLR in (with HOT signal)

-I'm not sure which output stage is quieter between the ART and the dbx, so you'll have to twist the knobs yourself to find that out.

All the things above should allow you to get a pretty good sound to tape. If not, then you might need to look into getting a better mic or recording medium.

REMEMBER!-- Tape hiss records at a constant volume regardless of how loud the incoming sound is. So always record with the loudest signal you can so that your signal is as loud as possible compared to the tape hiss. It is very imortant to do this even if the part you're recording is going to be very low in the mix. (I said that before didn't I?!) :>

GOOD LUCK!

saxman72
 
Thanks for the info Saxman and Spider... Both of your comments seem consistant with what I've seen elseware here (and I've tried to follow everyone's advice). I'm using XLR all the way through - short cables (3' or less) and then a 15' for the mic to the pre.

My studio is pretty quiet... unless I run the water or flush the toilet ;-). I got my rig on one of those Peavy road rack things and just roll it up outside the door. Will people think I'm weird if I put accoustic tiles in my bathroom? My wife says she feels like singing everytime she uses the bathroom now...

I'll really need to check each stage of my setup - I suspect the mic personally. The guys at GC suggested I bring in my setup and do an in-store comparison...

If that CAD's the culprit, then I'm thinking there's an NT in my future (and it aint from microsoft :-)

Thanks, Fusion
 
well if your going for a rode looks like your in luck ... sounds like saxman has the NT2 and im currently using the NT1 so seems only fair we give you a run on each... not a sales pitch by the way!!! Well i havent used the NT2 so the NT1 is a very impressive mic , but im sure if i used other mics i wouldnt be disapointed. I use it mainly for vocals , very crisp. But ive been trying things with an acoustic and the rode and seems to do the job nicely, gives a very warm sound to it.. So saxman , whats the NT2 like , have u used the NT1 , can u compare?? should i be upgrading or there isnt that much difference??
 
Spider,
Wish I could tell you how they sound different, but I can't... Never tried the NT1. But the NT2 is "crisp" too. Definitely some HF hype. It's great for male vocals. A tad on the bright side for some ladies though (in my opinion. i like darker sounds).

Go to:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/clydes_ride.html
and check out "Aisles of Smiles"

I recorded all the tracks on this tune except the tambourine which was done at the mixing studio (I didn't do the mixing). My one single NT2 is responsible for male and female vocals, sax, trumpet, and the bass cabinet (no direct signal).

enjoy!

saxman72
 
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