kick and snare questions...

M

mark2590

New member
Im having some trouble with kick and snare...first off. I use a sm57 on the snare and im not having much of a problem getting a good sound, but when the snare is loud enough in the mix to be heard well, you can hear much overhead bleed. I use a sontis compressor (vst plugin included with sonar) on the snare setting.

also, im lacking a good kick sound i use a shure kick mic and a home built subkick which is 14"...anyone have an eq tips on how to get that real thick kick sound?

thanks to anyone who can help me out.
 
You might need to gate the snare (before the compressor) to take out some of the bleed.

If you are using the Shure Beta 52 on the kick, you should be getting a decent sound. That mic likes to be just inside the hole in the front head. That and the subkick should sound massive. Check for phase problems between the kick mic and the sub kick.
 
1. ditch the snare setting on the compressor. set everything in the middle, then take each control and turn it to the extremes so that you get an idea of how the extremes of each setting sound

2. for some good kick, bump up in the neighborhood of 80hz by a few db, then do the same in the 1-4k area - this is where you get the sound of the beater striking the head. play around with the eq to see exactly where the frequencies you need to boost sit, because it will depend on the drum, tuning, player, room, mic, etc. etc.

a lot of people also like to cut the mid freq's out of the kick, but i guess that's a decision that has to be made depending on a lot of other factors
 
It would help if you could describe how, exactly, how your mics are set up ....distance and so forth.

...but when the snare is loud enough in the mix to be heard well, you can hear much overhead bleed.
Click to expand...

This is pretty normal .....you're gonna hear the snare (and toms) in the overheads. Its GOOD to hear the snare in the overheads, it gives you balance to the overall drum kit sound.

I would start with the overheads 1st(which I assume your shooting to capture the cymbals primarily) and get the snare and toms sounding as balanced with the cymbals and as good as possible. Play with the overhead placement before touching any EQ or compression. It can be frustrating and time consuming (especially if your recording by yourself) but if you can get the OH placement to the point where it sounds like you could just add a bit of kick and have a great sound then adding the close mics (barring phase issues) becomes MUCH easier. You can probably use some shelving EQ after that to get some of the kick and low freq rumble out of the OHs but I would be careful not to shelve too much of the meat out of the OH's.

As far as the kick ..... tuning can make all the difference in the world. It sounds backwards but often tuning the kick UP will make it sound bigger in a mix.

And after that .... placement placement placement.

And then dont be afraid to EQ the crap out of the kick in the mix. I usually find I have to tweak the kick EQ a lot in the context of the mix and also bring the level way up to really bang thru in a rock mix. It usually ends up sounding terrible by itself by the time it sounds right in the mix.

After placement, play with EQ then play with the compression settings ..... and I agree Ironklad, ditch the presets. Experiment experiment experiment ...one thing at time.

-mike
 
To add on to what farview said, the Beta 52 sounds good stuck right in the hole in the head, but be sure it points at the back of the drum right at the beater. You can really hear a big difference in punch if you hit the sweet spot where the beater hits....
 
Kick Drum: For metal boost at 4K for click and for rock boost at 5K for punch.
Scoop our the lo mids and boost the lo end and also add a hi pass filter so there is no boomy sound.

Same can apply for snare. I would mic the bottom and top of the snare always. The more mics you use the more choice of sound you have at mxing.
Last session My set up was:

Kick close D112 (right up at beater in the drum)
Kick far D112 ( just outside the hole)
Snare top C414 (near the outer edge but not right at the edge)
Snare bottom SM57 (facing half on and half off of the metal snare belt)
Hats C414 (top)
Tom 1 Sm58 (top)
Tom 2 Sm58 (top)
Tom 3 Sm58 (top)
Tom 4 Sm58 (top)
Tom Floor Sm58 (top)
OH L Rode NT2 (infront of the drummer off to the left.)
OH R Rode NT2 (behind the drummer off to the right.) Trying to centre the snare as much as possible.
Room mic C1000 (all I had!)
Ride cymbal Sennheiser clip mic (under the cymbal pointing between the middle and outsied of the cymbal)

I set up the kit so the cybals and hats were a little higher than usual and so that they werent too clsoe to any mics. This avoided bleed. Not sure why youa re getting so much bleed into the snare mic. I would make sure you have the snare mic facing at an angle of 45 degrees (roughly) pointing away from the hi hat and cymbals, ad make sure its ptty close to the snare. Say 2 inches.

Hope this helps.

£Eck
 
ecktronic said:
Kick Drum: For metal boost at 4K for click and for rock boost at 5K for punch.
Scoop our the lo mids and boost the lo end and also add a hi pass filter so there is no boomy sound.

Same can apply for snare. I would mic the bottom and top of the snare always. The more mics you use the more choice of sound you have at mxing.
Last session My set up was:

Kick close D112 (right up at beater in the drum)
Kick far D112 ( just outside the hole)
Snare top C414 (near the outer edge but not right at the edge)
Snare bottom SM57 (facing half on and half off of the metal snare belt)
Hats C414 (top)
Tom 1 Sm58 (top)
Tom 2 Sm58 (top)
Tom 3 Sm58 (top)
Tom 4 Sm58 (top)
Tom Floor Sm58 (top)
OH L Rode NT2 (infront of the drummer off to the left.)
OH R Rode NT2 (behind the drummer off to the right.) Trying to centre the snare as much as possible.
Room mic C1000 (all I had!)
Ride cymbal Sennheiser clip mic (under the cymbal pointing between the middle and outsied of the cymbal)
Click to expand...

Jesus man, that's alot of mics!!!!! :eek:

Just so that both extremes are presented here, I use one kik, one snare and 2 overhead mics. I would never say "YOU SHOULD" do this too, but it's definitley another option for you.
 
Try pulling the sub-kick out of the equation and see if you can get the kick sound you're looking for...

After that, re-introduce the sub... It should more of a 'presence' than a sound when it comes in... (if that makes any sense)

:)
 
BentRabbit said:
Try pulling the sub-kick out of the equation and see if you can get the kick sound you're looking for...

After that, re-introduce the sub... It should more of a 'presence' than a sound when it comes in... (if that makes any sense)

:)
Click to expand...
What what was that middle part? :p :D
 
I thought this was a kick and snare question? It seamed like a real civilized question to me! :p

(I kill myself)
 
gcapel said:
I thought this was a kick and snare question? It seamed like a real civilized question to me! :p

(I kill myself)
Click to expand...

I think I might of got a bit carried away. :)
Not in my micing though Rami! :)

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
I think I might of got a bit carried away. :)
Not in my micing though Rami! :)

Eck
Click to expand...
I wasn't putting it down if it works for you. Juat wanted to let it be known that someone people work with much less and are happy with the results also. :)
 
And this is how to mic the guitar:

Low E string: Senn 421
A string: another Senn 421
D string: SM57
G string: Rode NT2
B string: Senn 441
Hi E string: Another Senn 441
12th fret: AT3035
Bridge: Senn e602
Sound Hole: AT831b
Overheads: Mojave MA-200 (x2)
Left soulder: Earthworks TC-20
Under the chair: MXL 990
Between the legs: Either that's an RE20 or he's just really happy to be playing guitar after 9 hours of insane mic setup.

(with apologies to ecktronic ;) :D )

It just slays me how much time and money is spent on over-miking drum kits that no one will ever get back :rolleyes: .

G.
 
It just slays me how much time and money is spent on over-miking drum kits that no one will ever get back
Click to expand...

how else are we gonna pay the bills?

why spend 1/2 an hr. throwing up a kick, snare, and 2 OH's, when you can convince the band/producer/whoever that you need 14 mics on the kit, and that they have to pay you for it?
 
Ironklad Audio said:
why spend 1/2 an hr. throwing up a kick, snare, and 2 OH's, when you can convince the band/producer/whoever that you need 14 mics on the kit, and that they have to pay you for it?
Click to expand...
You used to work for the government, didn't you? :rolleyes: :D

G.
 
RAMI said:
I wasn't putting it down if it works for you. Juat wanted to let it be known that someone people work with much less and are happy with the results also. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah for sure.
Sometimes less is more.

Eck
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
And this is how to mic the guitar:

Low E string: Senn 421
A string: another Senn 421
D string: SM57
G string: Rode NT2
B string: Senn 441
Hi E string: Another Senn 441
12th fret: AT3035
Bridge: Senn e602
Sound Hole: AT831b
Overheads: Mojave MA-200 (x2)
Left soulder: Earthworks TC-20
Under the chair: MXL 990
Between the legs: Either that's an RE20 or he's just really happy to be playing guitar after 9 hours of insane mic setup.

(with apologies to ecktronic ;) :D )

It just slays me how much time and money is spent on over-miking drum kits that no one will ever get back :rolleyes: .

G.
Click to expand...

You cruel feker! I take the joke but. :)

I dont see my set up as over micing at all.
Only mic I could probably done without was the room mic becuase I was just trying that for the first time. Why wouldnt you want to put lots of mics up for heavy rock music. I want everything to be in your face and you need close mics on everything for that so you have more control over the levels of each drum.

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
Why wouldnt you want to put lots of mics up for heavy rock music. I want everything to be in your face and you need close mics on everything
Click to expand...
So, you're saying that John Bonham didn't have a good, in your face rock sound???? It was pretty much ALL ABOUT room mics.
Personally, I think you've got it completely backwards there, Eck.
 
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