Help: Mic Setup and Audio Mixing

H

Halozero

New member
Hello,
I am trying to get some advice on setting up two mics to record 4 people in conversation for YouTube. We will be sitting around a square table and I have a mic stand to position the mics above the table.

I have one cardioid (Zingyou BM-800) and one mid/side stereo (Shure MV88) mic to use for this and no budget for new equipment.
My original thought was to use the cardioid (Zingyou) to record one person and then the mid/side (MV88) to record the other three (mid->person 2, left side->person 3, right side->person 4). I am unsure how to properly mix the raw mid/side recording from the MV88 to best separate/clarify each of the 3 voices being recorded if I were to set up the mics this way.

I am using Logic Pro X for mixing. I know that the raw mid/side recording from the MV88 will be stereo where the Mid mic=Left channel, and both Side mics=Right channel. Is there a way to separate the information from the left and right side mics that are recorded in the one channel? I would like this to sound as if each person has their own mic. Or at least as close as possible.

Thanks for any help or advice.
 
I don't think you understand stereo mics. You're not going to get three separate channels of audio out of the one, you'll get two.

Since the two elements in the stereo mic are essentially in the same spot you're going to have to place it a bit far from the sources (people speaking) so you won't get a lot of separation between it and the other mic.

The way to capture multiple voices with multiple mics is to put one mic very close to each person's mouth.
 
Thanks for the response Boulder. As I said in my post the stereo mic (Shure MV88) is a mid/side mic. There are 3 elements/pickups. One center/mid, and two sides - left & right. The raw, unprocessed stereo recording places the center/mid on the left channel and both sides on the right channel of the recording. You can then use your DAW to mix/process the raw recording to better manipulate the stereo sound field.
That is where my knowledge ends. I am looking for any alternatives for positioning the two mics I have, and also a better understanding of how to process/mix the raw mid/side recording to help separate the three pickups.
 
Even in cases where there are two elements capturing the side signal they're almost always combined into a single figure-8 pattern mic and a single signal. It's fairly easy to convert an X-Y pattern mic's output to a mid-side signal, so I'm not even convinced it's an actual mid-side mic. If you could get three truly separate signals out of that mic it would probably say so in the documentation.

But the main problem is the distance the mic would have to be.
 
Looking at the specs this appears to be a standard figure 8 mic with built in signal routing to create either stereo, cardioid or mid/side output, however I cant tell if it has an additional diaphragm perpendicular to the bidirectional give a real "mid" channel". Frankly, it doesn't matter because you wont get more than two outputs no matter what so the best way to use it would be the stereo with each side point directly toward one source. Then you can split the stereo output into individual mono channels after it's recorded to process as needed.
 
Thanks for the input Gtoboy & Boulder. It does have a perpendicular diaphragm for a real mid channel.
From what I’ve read about the side (right channel of the raw mid/side stereo recording), it is suggested that you do in fact split the recording into two mono channels. Once that is done you can duplicate the right channel and then pan one full left and pan the other copy full right.
When I tried this I didn’t really get a good separation of the voices on either side. I don’t know if this is because of the way I was processing it in Logic Pro or if it’s the nature of the mic.
Again, my question is on two levels. One, can I process the raw mid/side recording in a way that will give me three distinct voices (or at least sound like it). And two, if not, what would be the recommended mic position for both mics to get the effect I’m looking for or at least close to it?

Thanks again for all of the help.
 
Halozero said:
Thanks for the input Gtoboy & Boulder. It does have a perpendicular diaphragm for a real mid channel.
From what I’ve read about the side (right channel of the raw mid/side stereo recording), it is suggested that you do in fact split the recording into two mono channels. Once that is done you can duplicate the right channel and then pan one full left and pan the other copy full right.
When I tried this I didn’t really get a good separation of the voices on either side. I don’t know if this is because of the way I was processing it in Logic Pro or if it’s the nature of the mic.
Again, my question is on two levels. One, can I process the raw mid/side recording in a way that will give me three distinct voices (or at least sound like it). And two, if not, what would be the recommended mic position for both mics to get the effect I’m looking for or at least close to it?

Thanks again for all of the help.
Click to expand...

With mid side you generally have a single centre capsule that is what it is and a sideways capsule too.
The sideways one, as you say, gets duplicated and panned hard left and right but you have to invert the polarity of one of them for it to work.

When you have that set up raising and lowering the centre mic crates a wider/narrower image.

You'll never get three discinct outputs from your microphone.
The best you can do, IMO, is just place it well such that the three people are 'mixed' already.
Whether you just use it as cardioid or go stereo with it is up to you, but it's always going to be a compromise.
 
I think that this is a matter of choosing the right tools for the job. A mid-side setup is great for adding stereo ambiance to a voice or instrument, but it's not really good at pinpointing voices coming at it from different directions. Remember that at its core, the M/S mic is just a single mono figure-8 (not a 2-channel stereo mic) and a cardioid mid channel.

As was suggested above, I'd also suggest using 4 individual cardioid microphones, with one in front of each person. Feed those into 4 individual mic preamps on the audio interface and create 4 mono tracks in the DAW, and mix them to taste.
 
That's an expensive wrong microphone for this job. The reality is that you have two choices. Get a mic per person, or group them very close together and use the stereo mic. In a deader than usual room, with the loudest speakers the furthest away. It will be a compromise too far, I suspect. Borrow some mics and I assume you have a multi-channel interface? If not, you need a small mixer and record that!
 
Thanks to all of you for the advice and knowledge, I do appreciate it.
I did not buy the MV88 mic specifically for this purpose. I am understanding now that it will not do what I was hoping in this scenario. I will have to rethink the positioning of the people speaking (more lined up or close together as Rob suggested), and use the MV88 in a wide stereo setup. Or maybe in a two + two configuration with one mic per pair of people.
I do have a Behringer Xenyx 302USB Mixer which I am connecting the Zingyou BM-800 cardioid mic to. Unfortunately the nature of the MV88 means I can’t connect it to the mixer (it connects directly to the lightning connector on iOS devices). No budget or time to get proper equipment for this project means I will have to make due with what I have.
Thanks again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top