Help integrating Soft Synths and General MIDI setup for Recording

laj35

New member
Hey Fellas,


Sorry, this will probably end up being really long winded, I just want to try and explain mysefl and my problems adequately. Any help you guys could provide would be very much appreciated.


OK here's the deal for our live setup we're sequencing everything in the Tritons onboard sequencer (I know most say it's useless but the coolest part are the RPPR's which trigger patterns, whatever their length, etc, on/off by assigning that pattern to a key on the board, so it's more live, more like playing, more "jammable"), using that as the master clock and for all different flavors of sounds, use a Boss Dr 5 for some of the percussion sounds, then we use the Novation A Station for either leads or basslines, we run a TR505 direct to the Novation's fx for some weird schtuff (problem #1) we use a couple of soft synths in conjuction with an Evolution MK-249C MIDI controller (main soft synths used: FM7, Pro 52, B4-->problems #2 and #3), then we mix in some spoken word type records all frigged up with the Kaoss Pad Mixer and a couple of technic 12s (problem #4) the Triton, the Novation+505, the Dr 5 run into the stereo ins of our trusty Mackie 1202 VLZ. I route the mixer into the PC via a Audiophile 2496 card from the master out, run it into our horrible monitoring system (read: cheapo panasonic-->rolls headphone splitter --or-- the shitiest signal ever, gotta change soon), then route the PC back into the mixer via the Aux in (see problem #3). Basically one of my mates mans the Triton--triggers all the percussion, tweaks the sounds within, etc; the other scrathces/mutilizes wax samples and caresses(hehe) the Kaoss Pad, while I get to tweak all the knobs and mix all the signals on the mackie (plus monitor Cubase, if we're recording (see problem #2)). We mostly make stuff that you could find on a Kruder and Dorfmeister mix cd, Kraftwerk meets Brian Eno I guess with a eeny bit of funk. Everything is created from live up, that is to say there's alot of free jamming that goes into the creative process.

OK, so hopefully that all is a somewhat congruent description, probably not. Anyways to the problems:

1.) I've been fiddling around trying to figure out the best way to integrate this piece (the TR 505), as some of the vintage sounds like the handclaps and rimshots are so nice. The trouble is I really want to use step write mode and bring in/build parts on the fly but have the tempos (obviously) synced. When you sync the clocks you cannot get into step write mode and just pushing play when unsynced doesn't work cause the tempo flutters. Am I missing something with this piece, or is it just to vintage to be useable??

2.) The first problem I'm having integrating the soft synths into the mix is simply getting the signal to the mixer without getting what I guess is reffered to as tape delay (it sounds really cool sometimes, it's like a flanger almost, it rises slowly in volume and only when I'm in Cubase trying to record). I guess this is because this is the in that should have my outboard fx so I can route things to it, but I don't understand how that works nor do I have any outboard fx. I only plugged the line from the PC into here cause it was the only stereo (kinda) in left. Should I just go into the mackie via a mono input?? What is this effect that's happening really called???

3.) The other problem I'm having integrating the soft synths relates to my MIDI chain on the whole. Here's how my current setup is, I know it's wrong, but I don't understand the schtuff perfect yet and am missing something:
Triton Out-->Novation In; Triton Thru--> 505 In; Novation Out--> DR 5 In; DR 5 Out--> PC; USB connection with the Evolution to control softies
As it stands I cannot record the soft synths because when in Cubase I can only controll them when on a MIDI channel that's routed to said softy. Am I a moron??? I know I need a MIDI interface with multi ins/outs so as to shorten the chain, but how would I then setup my chain, having the Triton be the master clock??? Are soft synths only really workable standalone or with software sequencers, can't the Triton somehow trigger the VSTi and have it record on an Audio track??? Should I try recording in Wavelab or Soundforge instead (duh, why haven't I tried this already, err...don't answer that)???

4.) The Kaoss Mixer has an absolutely horrid signal. The noise floor (I think that's what it's reffered to as) is really high, that is to say when there's nothing playing there's a whole lot of static BS. What is a good way to try and cutt some of this noise out??? I use some effective soft plug-ins that help this but would a "grounder"(?) or some other little noise reducer box (hardware) work??? Got any suggestions???

So I guess this turned out to be a ridiculously long post, I'm sorry bout that, I'm at work, really bored and in desperate need of help. Maybe somebody out there can shed some light for my dumb ass!!!!!!

Any thoughts/ideas are extremely appreciated, even if you don't think I'm a musician, thanks,


Laj


ps Hope this is an ok forum for this, couldn't really decide on one
for sure, sorry.
 
Last edited:
Ok. let me take a stab at this. And BTW is your email working? I tried sending you one a couple weeks ago.

1. This is a limitation of your TR505. I would sample the sounds you want to use and trigger those. You should have sample playback in one of your softsynths.

2. Sounds like you have a loop going in Cubase. Sometimes soundcards will automatically route all signals to output 1-2 as a monitor mix. If you are also assigning those Live channels to an output you will then have a loop. Try muting the channels in Cubase that you are recording. If you still hear them you are all set. If you dont hear them then the loop is somewhere else. Check your audio card drivers and see if it sends a monitor mix to any of the outputs. Turn off that option and see if that helps.

3. Midi jacks work like this - Out only sends signals from that unit. Thru passes on any signal that originated at that unit's MIDI in. Unless your drum machines will let you configure their Outs as Thru's your signal is going to end at the drum machines. Some keyboards also let you merge the OUT and THRU. This enables your to pass on midi and add to it with that device. You are trying to use too many 'controllers'. If you can live with out using the novation as a midi controller than you can do the following.

Comp out - Triton In
Comp In - Triton out
Triton Thru - Novation In
Novation Thru - Drum machine In

Unless you can do some merging or splitting with your novation your midi signal is going to stop there and your are limited to one drum machine. With this setup your Triton is the main controller and the only key that sends midi info to your computer. The Novation will only receive midi but you can still tweak the knobs as it plays back.

Midi thru and Merge boxes are pretty cheap and they will do the trick to give you more options.

4. Put a noise gate on the kaoss or mute it on the Mackie when not in use.

Good luck.











Comp out to Triton In
Triton thru to Novation In
 
Thanks for replying Tex and so thoroughly at that, it's definitely appreciated. It seems pretty evident to me that I'm very much in need of a merge box, prolly gonna go with the Midiman 4x4, which should hopefully give me more options. I think I've pretty well figured out the tape delay type deal. Sucks the TR505 can't be used on it's own, sounds nice direct to the Novation's fx, ah well.

I actually sent you a PM Tex, I don't know if you sent me an e-mail through the BBS, hope not cause it's not the right addy. Thought you had my e-mail at some point, anyways it's laj2235@hotmail.com, thanks again man.



Laj
 
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