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Thread: Heavy Metal Guitars

  1. #1
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    Heavy Metal Guitars

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    I am having trouble getting a good sound on tape which seems very crazy considering the gear i use.
    The sound is brittle and messy. and seems to get lost.
    Here is what i use:

    Marshall 1959 Plexi
    Marshall JCM 800 (1983)
    Marshall 4x12 cab with greenbacks
    Marshall powerbrake
    Shure sm57 mics
    Great river preamps
    Jackson soloist and Gibson les-paul
    All recorded into a Yamaha aw4416 24 bit 44.1

    I have tried all types of mic placement, turning gain down on amp and mid boosting.
    I am in a 12' x 13' x 7' tall basement room that is treated well with rigid fiberglass, painted cement floor and all rigid fiberglass ceiling covered in burlap.
    I built an entire wall that seperates the control room and the amp room using
    Ethans designs.

    I am wondering if the room has to be deader or maybe more live??
    I cant seem to get a tight uniformed sound.
    I try not to use any eq and i never compress during recording.
    I do have an EL8 distressor that i have not tried with guitars only used for vocals.

    Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks!

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    What mics are you using?

    If your micing right up to the cabinet the room probably wont make a huge difference.

    I find that when recording things like a JCM 800 its best to have the mic back a few inches instead of right up to it. Then mess with mic placements. it will get thicker and more dynamic with less gain. try putting in mids until it starts to get muddy, then lessen up on the bass a little bit. Bass is really important if you want it big, but it can really conflict with the bass guitar itself.

    Danny

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    Damn, it sounds like you've tried the usual routes. With your gear/room I would think you should be ok. About all I could suggest is maybe trying a different mic along with the SM57 and then blend the two sounds to see if you get something you like. I've had good results with a Sennheiser E609 and SM57 together. You can also try an LDC mic a few feet back off the cabinet.

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    Not accusing, just checking -

    Have you tried backing off on the gain and making use of the midrange?

    Obviously, you want "crunch" and you're getting "fuzz" - Could you be working with a sound that seems crunchy in the room, but fuzzy up close to a microphone...?

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    Anyone know the Deftones and how they get their guitar sound?
    Its really really wide and thick and full. Maybe a tad muddy though.
    Anyone tried layering guitars and compressing the fek out of one of the layers and sitting it behind the main layer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. torture
    I have tried all types of mic placement, turning gain down on amp and mid boosting.
    Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Have you previewed your sound prior to tracking? You will need to isolate yourself and listen to the sound that the mics are picking up. I know you've heard this before, but the mic doesn't hear things the same way our ears do. You may have to tweek the hell out of your amp to get it to sound good through your recording chain. It may not sound good to your ears, but like I said...

    Everything else seems to be spot on as far as everything I have seen. Do you have access to different mics? The SM57 is an awesome mic, but perhaps it's not so great with your tone...
    Instead of a Do Not Disturb Sign, I need one that says "Already Disturbed. Proceed With Caution".

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokket
    Have you previewed your sound prior to tracking? You will need to isolate yourself and listen to the sound that the mics are picking up. I know you've heard this before, but the mic doesn't hear things the same way our ears do. You may have to tweek the hell out of your amp to get it to sound good through your recording chain. It may not sound good to your ears, but like I said...

    Everything else seems to be spot on as far as everything I have seen. Do you have access to different mics? The SM57 is an awesome mic, but perhaps it's not so great with your tone...

    I have an RE-20 , MD421 , (2) SM-57's , Audio tech 4040 condenser
    What type of volume should i be pushing out of my amp in that size room?
    I understand that the sound that usually works in the mix will be alot different than the sound i like. I am ok with that, But every sound i hate and it still does not work. I have turned gain down to the point of almost clean and it just sounds messy and dull. My guitars are set-up by a tech before every session.
    I have layered guitars, used different mics and guitars for each layer.
    Changed placement of mics etc. etc. etc.
    The only thing that has not changed is the size of the room, It is acoustically treated as well as i can make it but at the end of the day it's still a small room in a basement. Maybe i need an airplane hanger

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. torture
    I have an RE-20 , MD421 , (2) SM-57's , Audio tech 4040 condenser
    What type of volume should i be pushing out of my amp in that size room?
    I understand that the sound that usually works in the mix will be alot different than the sound i like. I am ok with that, But every sound i hate and it still does not work. I have turned gain down to the point of almost clean and it just sounds messy and dull. My guitars are set-up by a tech before every session.
    I have layered guitars, used different mics and guitars for each layer.
    Changed placement of mics etc. etc. etc.
    The only thing that has not changed is the size of the room, It is acoustically treated as well as i can make it but at the end of the day it's still a small room in a basement. Maybe i need an airplane hanger
    The room will come into play if you are using a 2nd mic a few feet back from your amp. As far as the volume, it doesn't take a massive, cranked to 11 volume to get good sound when recording. As long as you are getting close to -0dB when you are tracking, that's what's important. I've noticed that some tube amps need to be cranked a little to overdrive the tubes to get a nice, crunchy tone, but I use 10-watt and 25-watt practice amps to record, with no problems. The gain isn't adjustable on the 10-watt, but I do just fine with it's tone. But I only use a single mic when I record. My recording space is my bedroom, and the curtains and furniture in there deaden it a bit.
    Instead of a Do Not Disturb Sign, I need one that says "Already Disturbed. Proceed With Caution".

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    Yeah, I have trouble thinking it's your room when I've heard recordings people have made with great guitar tones recorded in their untreated bedrooms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. torture
    I am having trouble getting a good sound on tape which seems very crazy considering the gear i use.
    The sound is brittle and messy. and seems to get lost.
    Here is what i use:
    Go here: Slipperman's Recording Distorted Guitars Thread From Hell

    More than you probably want to know.
    Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
    The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.
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