[SOLVED] FOCUSRITE 2i2 3RD GEN, MY COMPUTER'S INTERNAL SOUND CARD AND RECORD QUALITY

If you used a camcorder and it has manual mode, learn how to manually set both white balance and focus. Then, manually set both using something white where you will be sitting so the color doesn't drift, and maybe you get rid of some of the lighting shift I see, and any moving around you do doesn't cause the camera to lose focus, or I should say, decide to focus on something else. Low(er) light situations are easy to confuse a camera that's on full auto, and I've had situations that looked ok when viewing in the small LxD screen but when pulled into the editor were not sharp, or were perfectly focused on the setscrew on the boom 2 feet in front of what it was supposed to be focused on.

If you get a good sounding room, a couple of mics just out of frame (with some zooming, as suggested) might be enough to give you a better sound than the camera audio, and save troubling with mic placement. If you do need the mic in front of you, either place it well below your face (from the camera perspective), aimed up, or consider angling the shot/camera position so the mic and/or stand is not smack in front your face.
 
Unfortunately, the Q8 doesn't seem to have a white balance setting. I saw that and looked through the manual to see where to set it. It seems to be balanced for daylight, but has a couple of other modes but none that specify incandescent or indoor.

It could be adjusted in post to some degree.
 
I admit the audio sounded better than expected. There was a nice crisp detailed vocal with the SP B3, the overall sound was full and noise floor no problem. Some room verb too.

The song got me flying through the Joni Mitchell version that lead to the Judy Collins versions (very fast tempo! mono and stereo 45) , recorded through Elektra....which had a name drop of the Byrds recording at Elektra too and a producer mentioned a Byrds song with writing credits to Harvey Gerst...a poster here. The 2000 version of Joni's and the 1000's of covers was an interesting story in itself, of how Joni didn't have a clue it would be so big a hit. The song itself is mesmerizing how it captured the ears of so many recording artists, I never knew all that. wow!

Anyway! You seem to have a good grasp on recording and getting the sounds mixed, and mic placements might be all you need to tweak, if you want to work on the guitar clarity. It was a recording easy on the ears as is, I listened to it a few times...

good luck with your adventures!

Hi CoolCat!

Very nice of you to make a comparison and take the time to listen to my video! I played my guitar and sang BSN faster because I was told I was taking too long, to be closer to 3 min which I couldn't do. Thanks too for your encouragement. I was wondering, only if you have time, to listen to the new video I made and compare my guitar audio quality to this girl who also sings Both Sides Now, by far better than I, but just want you to see how her guitar record quality sounds. I thought I might leave the SP B3 for my voice and found a good deal to maybe buy a used AKG 212C mic. Do you like those mics? I'd use that on the guitar hoping I would get even better sound, maybe like the girl in below video. My video is on Google Drive as any file above 25MB must be uploaded to GD. You will see how great her steel string Taylor maybe with plug-in sounds. I see just at the bottom and slightly to the left of her screen the very top of her mic, but that's all. She doesn't really respond to comments so I have to guess, although she probably has some top line AKG or Neumann or Seinhieser etc. If you have time let me know if my getting the AKG 212C would help even more. Maybe with my Zoom Q8 even with a better mic still might be not that great to record with. It's just that my "new" Takamine No.10 classical guitar made in 1986 I just bought used sounds a lot more deeper and richer, like the girl's guitar. Just look below the girl's video and you'll see "Sign In" and I set it at "Share" so I think it will work. I hope...

Thanks!
Winfred

YouTube

YouTube
 
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I admit the audio sounded better than expected. There was a nice crisp detailed vocal with the SP B3, the overall sound was full and noise floor no problem. Some room verb too.

The song got me flying through the Joni Mitchell version that lead to the Judy Collins versions (very fast tempo! mono and stereo 45) , recorded through Elektra....which had a name drop of the Byrds recording at Elektra too and a producer mentioned a Byrds song with writing credits to Harvey Gerst...a poster here. The 2000 version of Joni's and the 1000's of covers was an interesting story in itself, of how Joni didn't have a clue it would be so big a hit. The song itself is mesmerizing how it captured the ears of so many recording artists, I never knew all that. wow!

Anyway! You seem to have a good grasp on recording and getting the sounds mixed, and mic placements might be all you need to tweak, if you want to work on the guitar clarity. It was a recording easy on the ears as is, I listened to it a few times...

good luck with your adventures!

Hi CoolCat!

Very nice of you to make a comparison and take the time to listen to my video! I played my guitar and sang BSN faster because I was told I was taking too long, to be closer to 3 min which I couldn't do. Thanks too for your encouragement. I was wondering, only if you have time, to listen to the new video I made and compare my guitar audio quality to this girl who also sings Both Sides Now, by far better than I, but just want you to see how her guitar record quality sounds. I thought I might leave the SP B3 for my voice and found a good deal to maybe buy a used AKG 212C mic. Do you like those mics? I'd use that on the guitar hoping I would get even better sound, maybe like the girl in below video. My video is on Google Drive as any file above 25MB must be uploaded to GD. You will see how great her steel string Taylor maybe with plug-in sounds. I see just at the bottom and slightly to the left of her screen the very top of her mic, but that's all. She doesn't really respond to comments so I have to guess, although she probably has some top line AKG or Neumann or Seinhieser etc. If you have time let me know if my getting the AKG 212C would help even more. Maybe with my Zoom Q8 even with a better mic still might be not that great to record with. It's just that my "new" Takamine No.10 classical guitar made in 1986 I just bought used sounds a lot more deeper and richer, like the girl's guitar. My link is just below the YouTube video "Sign In" which I hope works. Also if you have time to read my post #45.

Thanks!
Winfred

YouTube

YouTube
 
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The Youtube Video came through. First off, the color of the video is much improved over what you had in the first video. Glad to see you got working a bit better.

I don't think the sound of the guitar is bad. I don't have the luxury of hearing it in person, so I can't comment on the sound compared to the recording.

You keep mentioning "deep and rich". I think the B3 will give you that. You need to work on placement. Also, make sure that the low frequency roll-off switch is not engaged. The switch should be in the middle position and in cardioid position. One other thought, what are using to monitor your sound?

I see you using the pop filter on the guitar mic. Its not needed, as you won't have any breath to cause pops. You might get it a bit closer to see if it will boost the bottom end. Cardioid mics have a bass boost as you get closer. Its called proximity effect.

The Keiko video could have been done various ways. The guitar may be picked up direct from the onboard system. Some of the Taylors have a really nice system. I haven't used the direct in on my Taylor for a while, but it was one of the reasons I picked it. I also noticed that the sync is off between the video and audio. I wonder if it was really done live. Looking at some of her other videos, she appears to have done some professional recording. One of the videos is just her, but it has orchestral accompaniment.

I threw this together one morning for a previous thread. I used my B3 on the guitar, and a MXL V67g for the vocal. I didn't do any adjustment to the audio, no eq, compression or reverb. It was set up about like you have in your video. Also attached is a "remix" where I boosted the low end and added a bit of echo. You can make significant adjustments in the sound in Reaper using the tools included.
 

Attachments

  • April Come She Will Raw Track.mp3
    4 MB · Views: 13
  • April EQ and reverb.mp3
    3.5 MB · Views: 10
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TalismanRich makes an important point . . . we really have no idea how much post-production was done on the Keiko recording. He also does a real nice version of April.

I didn't find anything unpleasant about Winfred's guitar tone, but I note the substantially different playing styles that will create different impressions of space.
 
Good to see you back, Winfred.

First off, the playing was really good. Nice arrangement on Joni's music.

The vocals sounded pretty good to me. They were a bit low in comparison to the guitar but that can be adjusted. The tone of your voice was captured pretty well. For the guitar, I think you just need to start with some different placements of the mic. Acoustic guitar is a big instrument, and the sound varies a lot depending on where the mic is pointed. Aiming straight at the soundhole usually gives a boomy sound. With a nylon string guitar, you won't get much in the way of brightness from the strings, so I would try pointing the mic at the neck joint, perhaps tilted a bit towards the soundhole if you need it. I would sit down with the camera on, play a bit, move the mic, play some more, move again, then go back and listen to each position until you find the spot that sounds the best. With using the camera, you won't even have to try to remember which setup you like really is.

Keep at it, and you'll find that things get better as you learn what works best.

As for only getting 52 view in 25 hours, that's actually not bad. I have a video I posted weeks ago that has about 30 view, but it was posted strictly for a forum that I'm on. Considering the BILLIONS of videos on the MILLIONS of channels on YouTube, its actually quite good considering its a new channel. As you build your portfolio, and post videos on various forums, you will get more views. Its not like Youtube will promote a video unless you get millions of hits. Its a bit of a vicious circle. You get more views because you have a lot of views!

Hi Again TalismanRich!

I forgot to say that I received 104 views and 2 subscribes after 3 days and was sick about it and deleted the video permanently, but realize now I shouldn't have... yet in a way I should have as I felt deep down I could do better. I re-recorded and yet to make it public. I give the link just to those here who can see it privately. I'm still not happy with the guitar not sounding like Kieko Nessario's very nice rich deep tone. In real life my guitar sounds beautiful, deep and rich. I consider it divine intervention I ended up with the Takamine No.10 made in 1986 I bought, my first guitar since 1980, on my long savings. I found it on Reverb Nation. When it came it looked like new strings on it, but it sounded dead. I was sick about it and brought it to a pro repair shop that even repaired guitars for Leo Kottkke and he felt the same but sold a set of D'Addario strings to try. We had both been fooled as I swear, once I changed the strings that they were the original strings 34 yrs old!! I could tell by the marks the wound strings left on the decorative plastic plate on the bridge. Also the frets, and hardly present tiny scratches on the back. Once I put those new strings on the guitar it sounded fantastic! The only big problem was the 3rd G string was dead and learned that strangely often happens with classical guitars. I got advice from a guitar forum and ordered from Strings By Mail company. With very good advice I asked what they considered the top 3 possible strings to solve the problem. I bought all three to be sure, and their top choice, a Savarez Alliance j543 high tension carbon G or 3rd string worked! I still hope I can attain the sound quality like with that girl's recording I included on post #45 if you have time. For me the guitar sound is important as I do all fingerpicking... so just me being more concerned than most for that reason.

Fingerpicking and my Takamine... Those are the reasons I'm still holding back, and also because it's my debut, an unknown in a crucial moment to lead others on to my original music with this one famous song... I was shocked once I played in public with others liking my music, and some telling me I reminded them of the late British songwriter Nick Drake that I never heard of. No way am I that good. I think maybe they said that because I finger-pick and at times play in atypical key signatures. I just hope I can capture the guitar better and already paid ahead online to a studio that charges $36 an hour studio time. Only, I had to cancel my Monday studio time... and it's painful to type right now, as I conveniently sprained my left wrist the worst ever in my 66 years! It's a laugh I compare to Kieko Nessario as I feel she sings Both Sides Now, and plays guitar, best I've ever heard with that song, better than Joni Mitchell, only it's the recording quality I'm trying to give as an example! I've got to get on the other side of this yet the pain is also strangely deep in my wrist, not only tendons but something deep. It was so bad I dug up an old bottle from 2011 of Oxycontin I have when I get very bad back pain. I reach for that old bottle only at very last resort as doctors will basically no longer prescribe it, even through my horrible pain from a major gout attack where I could barely walk and borrowed a walker and wished I'd had a wheelchair for a while it was so bad and still they didn't prescribe it. I don't know without that old bottle from 2011 prescribed when I went to Mayo Clinic. It's also laughable as I say "my debut" and I'm 66 yrs old ha! Thanks for all!
Carpe Diem!
Winfred
 
The Youtube Video came through. First off, the color of the video is much improved over what you had in the first video. Glad to see you got working a bit better.

I don't think the sound of the guitar is bad. I don't have the luxury of hearing it in person, so I can't comment on the sound compared to the recording.

You keep mentioning "deep and rich". I think the B3 will give you that. You need to work on placement. Also, make sure that the low frequency roll-off switch is not engaged. The switch should be in the middle position and in cardioid position. One other thought, what are using to monitor your sound?

I see you using the pop filter on the guitar mic. Its not needed, as you won't have any breath to cause pops. You might get it a bit closer to see if it will boost the bottom end. Cardioid mics have a bass boost as you get closer. Its called proximity effect.

The Keiko video could have been done various ways. The guitar may be picked up direct from the onboard system. Some of the Taylors have a really nice system. I haven't used the direct in on my Taylor for a while, but it was one of the reasons I picked it. I also noticed that the sync is off between the video and audio. I wonder if it was really done live. Looking at some of her other videos, she appears to have done some professional recording. One of the videos is just her, but it has orchestral accompaniment.

I threw this together one morning for a previous thread. I used my B3 on the guitar, and a MXL V67g for the vocal. I didn't do any adjustment to the audio, no eq, compression or reverb. It was set up about like you have in your video. Also attached is a "remix" where I boosted the low end and added a bit of echo. You can make significant adjustments in the sound in Reaper using the tools included.

Hi!

Painful flashes happening in my left hand with this wrist problem and have to stop but wow you are a troubadour! I love and knew right away what song you're playing with that beautiful A6sus chord at the start! That's the way I fake it when trying to play that great song! Your fingerpicking and voice is great! It's amazing how much you do or convey in only about 1:54. You also, like Keiko, attained very nice guitar sound. To me my guitar part of the recording sounds muddled, but only my amateur ear. I'll try the near to where the neck meets the body as you advise. I can't remember if I've already tried that. I have to stop as this is getting bad with my wrist. With the B3 I learned the hard way when I was creating my solo piano albums 17 yrs ago that I had to put my mics on omni to avoid that strange phase problem that drastically reduces quality, and that phase problem occurs most readily when the mics are close together. With my guitar and voice that's exactly what happens, very close. You're saying guitar record quality goes up on cardoid as opposed to omni? I love your fingerpicking, and such a resonant and clear singing voice!

Thanks,
Winfred
 
TalismanRich makes an important point . . . we really have no idea how much post-production was done on the Keiko recording. He also does a real nice version of April.

I didn't find anything unpleasant about Winfred's guitar tone, but I note the substantially different playing styles that will create different impressions of space.

Hi Gecko zzed!

Very nice of you to take the time again. I can't say much as getting bad flashes of pain in my left hand with a badly sprained wrist, and happening after I'd reserved studio time at a pro studio that charges $36 an hour and had to cancel. Yes TalismanRich is very talented and love his recording! I can see how Keiko's recording has a slight reverb too. I feel my guitar part anyways... seems muddled, and not clear like TalismanRich's and Kieko's recordings... yet maybe I need to do mastering to attain their level of quality, do my homework with the Reaper I got the free 60 days subscription so far. What are "Impressions of space", is that an actual sound engineering term? So you feel that my playing style makes a feeling of space or quality more difficult to attain, where TalismanRich and Keiko play slower? I better stop with this pain as I might be setting myself back, however this advice is vital to me and might decide to hold on buying a AKG Pro Audio C214. This is a review I found: AKG C214 Review | Home Recording Lab

Thanks very much and keep close watch for advice here especially trying to decide and will hold on buying that AKG with money I can't but am willing to spare.

Later!
Winfred
 
What are "Impressions of space", is that an actual sound engineering term? So you feel that my playing style makes a feeling of space or quality more difficult to attain, where TalismanRich and Keiko play slower?

"Impressions of space" is not an engineering term. It's just my description of how sound works for me. Pluck a string once on a guitar and let it ring out. You will hear the initial attack, then the sound gradually die. You will also hear how the guitar body resonates, and how the sound reacts to the room, e.g. whether it sounds echoey, or whether it is dampened by carpets and curtains or whatever. In other words, you hear the note, but you also hear the space in which the note is played, and that adds depth and interest to the sound. That's what I mean by impressions of space. If you play lots of notes rapidly, then you have a different type of sound. It can be fuller, more dense. Neither is necessarily better or worse than the other, but it is dificult to determine quality of sound you compare two quite different styles , i.e. comparing dense playing with sparse playing.

Winfred however this advice is vital to me and might decide to hold on buying a AKG Pro Audio C214.[/QUOTE said:
This is a bad idea. Your mikes are perfectly good and are not the problem.
 
"Impressions of space" is not an engineering term. It's just my description of how sound works for me. Pluck a string once on a guitar and let it ring out. You will hear the initial attack, then the sound gradually die. You will also hear how the guitar body resonates, and how the sound reacts to the room, e.g. whether it sounds echoey, or whether it is dampened by carpets and curtains or whatever. In other words, you hear the note, but you also hear the space in which the note is played, and that adds depth and interest to the sound. That's what I mean by impressions of space. If you play lots of notes rapidly, then you have a different type of sound. It can be fuller, more dense. Neither is necessarily better or worse than the other, but it is dificult to determine quality of sound you compare two quite different styles , i.e. comparing dense playing with sparse playing.

This is a bad idea. Your mikes are perfectly good and are not the problem.

Hi Gecko zzed!

I see now what you mean and was influencing me to slow down while practicing yesterday resulting in a new version. I think I need not to be so concerned about shortening what will be I think a 5:30 length. The version I posted here was about 4:12 of actual song. I was too tense about playing it faster so I could cover all the ground I'd hoped to. What I posted on YouTube then deleted, my first, was actually 6:45 in song length from a posted total of 7:34... way too long. With the shorter take I posted here I think I was too hyper with it, well... among other basic problems I have as a musician, "the me part of it" ha! I realize now the open mic goers who liked my music over the 2 yrs playing the open mic sessions, that such a crowd is actually more empathetic. It's good though that I can be more objective about myself and seeing and hearing myself first time with the video takes... where my weaknesses are as a musician. I have sprained my wrist and I think finally today only very little pain after one week of recovery, that now I can practice significantly and not feel it the next morning too. I'm going to have to recover from this injury and practice for a while before I can record, but will try some practice recording sessions.

I will for the first time have my headphones on to hear myself, and my mics instead on cardioid. I will then place best I can while listening to be certain my voice is dominant with the voice mic, and with the other mic that my guitar is dominant... as very wisely advised in another thread I have. With my 59 takes I always had the mics as I did 17 yrs ago, on omni, when I was recording solo piano. That was a big mistake in this application where I now record with my voice and guitar. I learned that with one source, like my piano, omni is okay, but not so with two sources as is the case with me this time around.

Wow! If 17 more years into my future were to go by now... I'm 66 now, I'd be 83!! Life is short! I could be, if I make it to that age, pushing a walker etc, and even people my age around me in this Senior bldg pushing walkers and riding electric chairs... Three people I knew here in my bldg died in 10 days recently! I'm going to record though my original songs, give them a chance. Like when I went for a tour of the recording studio the owner saying to me, "well it's like you're leaving something behind". I guess that's part of it all. In a way though it's as someone here commented during the 3 days my video was up on YouTube, that my adventure has started. I like to think too that adventures are ever present with every turn of life, and seeing life that way makes a world of difference. My music is an adventure too, and see so many here in my bldg give up, some resort to drugs too, sad.

I try to give them (people in my bldg) happiness and do random acts of kindness like I was doing for a lady here for a good part of today who likes my piano music by giving her my very first cassette tape album I made back in 1999. I found it when sorting through old possessions. So I was back and forth retrieving a stereo set left by the dumpster and testing things and getting it ready to give to her along with a nice double cassette deck and book shelf speakers that would have gone to waste. This gets long and I better close.

In the mean time I will mail order some kind of extension cord for my headphones. As it is I will have to move my camera forward, adjust the mics with the headphones on while listening to myself, then take them off and move the camera back. I already paid that recording studio $36 and I think I'll see how their recording turns out too. The reality is since I invested so much in my equipment I better get to the task of learning and record myself.

It's strange to see others selling my piano albums, something that's continued amazingly constantly over the 17 yrs it has been since they launched. I just saw today two of them for sale used on Amazon for $32 each... but other people, not me, selling them. About this time last year a store in Japan had my album used for $85 and two weeks later it was gone! After 3 emails over time asking one of the store owners how he could sell my CD's for $45 each he finally replied, "I know how to advertise, and I know who my clients are."-- a lot I don't know ha! Thanks again for all of your cogent and lucid advice.

Top of the Day over There in the amazing Tasmania. It would be great to go there on my bucket list. I'll be gradually going around the world hopefully if I can get a good electric bike and pull a little trailer, that's if with the CoVid19 things begin to open up. The vaccinations are thousands of dollars, like the Japanese Encephalitis vaccine is $1,300 US dollars, rabies is $1,200... so I'm going to have to go on a prayer in my case ha! You, living in Tasmania, must have some great adventures under your belt! I've seen Tasmania in some documentaries, and a phenomenal place it is!!!

Top of the Day!
Winfred
 
You may not need to get an extensio for headphones. The purpose of using headphones is to identify the best place to position your mike. That's something that you can think about independently of which room you are in and whereever you are in the room. Generally you would place the mike somewhere between 12 and 18 inches, and the room, at those distances, is not going to have a huge impact.

So pop a mike on a stand, connect it up to your interface, plug your headphones into the interface, then seat yourself so that you can wear the headphones comfortably. From there you can place the mike in different positions to see which gives you the nicest sound.

Once you've figured that out, you can't put the headphones away, and just record how you were before, but placing the mike in the position that you figured was best.

As for Tasmania, it is a very nice place, and I don't think I would trade it for anywhere else.
 
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