Expensive audio interface or cheap audio interface with expensive mic preamp?

noelhoekstra

New member
Hello,

I would like to record my electric guitar by placing a microphone before the guitar cabinet.
Alot of websites recommend a shure sm57. But i've also read those mics need a minimum of 60db gain.
Alot of budget audio interfaces dont have 60db and higher.

Examples brands:
Focusrite, Presonus, Motu, M-audio, Steinberg, Audient.

I found some audio interfaces with higher db and better dynamic range:
- RME babyface pro FS
- Sound Devices micpre-3
- Apogee Duet.

These audio interfaces are between 600-800 euro. Thats fine for me. The problem with those devices: They dont have 3-4 microphone inputs...

My questions:
- Does a shure sm57 really needs +60db?
- When need 3 microphone inputs, is it possible using 2 inputs from the audio interface and one from a single channel mic preamp?
- What is better: expensive audio interface with 4 channels or cheap interface (Focusrite) with expensive Mic preamp?

Greetings,

Noël
 
Thoughts:

Get yourself an interface with the number of inputs you exepct you are likely to need.

There are more microphones in the world than the SM57, but the SM57 will still be fine through any contemporary interface, specially if you are using it in front of a guitar cab.

Using a separate preamp will not gain you another channel. You still need it to go through an interface.
 
On a guitar cab an SM57 won't need anything like 60dB of gain so you'll be fine with most interfaces. In fact the gain figure for an audio interface is pretty meaningless as the signal is sent straight to the analogue to digital convertor which probably requires a different signal level to a typical line input. A better figure to look at is the input noise. A budget interface will have an equivalent input noise (EIN) of -120dBu while a good interface will have an EIN of -127dBu or lower. Make sure the spec includes the bandwidth (typically 20kHz) and termination resistor (typically 150-200 ohms) for the measurement as certain manufacturers fiddle with these in order to improve the spec on paper.

There are other reasons to go for a more expensive interface besides sound quality. Good drivers and support cost money and I'd suggest going for RME if you are looking at something more expensive. The Babyface is expandable via ADAT up to 10 input channels. If you want something cheaper take a look at Audient as they have decent mic preamps and most are also expandable via ADAT too.
 
The RME's are great, I don't own one but a friend of mine has the Babyface Pro and swears by it. However you need more inputs and cost to quality I personally love the Steinberg interfaces. A UR44c with a Fethead, Cloudlifter or Dynamite will be cost effective, more than enough clean low noise gain, solid drivers and support. Did I mention built like tank.
I highly doubt you will need 60db's of gain for the 57, as i have never needed it with my UR22 or UR44. But i do use my Fetheads just in case and there is always more clean gain than i need(mostly for my mid 80's MD421 and SM7B that i add them to the chain). I use them more than my GAP Pre73 preamp when recording cabs.
 
To add on, and I hope not confuse, what others have said - any interface will be fine with the SM57 in front of a cab. I used my old Focusrite, low 50s of gain, if that, with the SM57 stuck in front of a 5" speaker to test some things and it was fine.

Yes, the number of mic preamps on the interface are probably the most important feature when you are counting input needs. I'd say probably all consumer interfaces will have combo jacks that allow a LINE level input, e.g. from another preamp, but most with 4 mic pres also have additional LINE inputs on the back panel that go direct to the A/D. So you can get a couple more inputs that way, and most will also have ADAT inputs if you really need to expand.

An expensive mic pre into a "cheap" interface that goes through the combo jack is probably going through that interface's preamp circuitry. It's better saved for a little better featured interface with separate LINE inputs. But, in your case, I'd consider a 2nd mic on the cabinet, maybe a ribbon, and stick with the interface pres.
 
Thank you for all the reply's. Didnt know about cloudfilters, EIN and driver updates..

I will focus on buying a decent interface with 3-4 mic inputs. I might borrow a sm57 and try it out.

Any recommendations for other microphones? Maximum budget 300 euro each.
 
I agree, you won't need 60dB of gain with a 57 against the fret of a guitar amp and yes, take a bit of time to decide how many mic channels you need. Do not forget, you can get an AI with say 2 mic inputs but with two or more line inputs which can be used with an external pre amp or mixer if future needs dictate it.

You really do not need to worry overmuch about pre amp 'gain' or 'noise' with almost any of the modern AIs.
There are situations where a pre amp might be lacking, speech into a dynamic mic or 'classical' gut strung guitar but most folks overcome such limitations with a capacitor microphone.

In the specific case of the guitar amp? Do not forget that most amps are pretty noisy buggers anyway so even an NT1a and Grace pre would give no improvement!

Dave.
 
Any recommendations for other microphones? Maximum budget 300 euro each.

Just for guitar? You might consider a budget condensor mic in combination with the SM57. AKG and Audio Technica have mics for around 150euro that will work fine. Plus they can double for vocals. I only ever recorded an amp once and used an MXL. Very clean tones from the amp and the MXL captured it nicely.

Honestly, there are so many to choose from it is easy to get overwhelmed with the choices. You don't need to spend much to get great results.
 
As you are asking in Euros chap, there is very decent French mic, the Prodipe TT1 for about 50 of them and the really remarkably good Behringer XM8500 for less than Eu20. I would commend the Berry to bands and PA contractors where mics can get bashed or nicked! Both mics are about 4dB more sensitive than the Shures.
I paid 15 quid for mine and it now lives in the garden wrapped in cling film replacing a £25 Maplin jobby that has given up after just over 12 months.

Dave.
 
I wish i just went for a 8 input interface from the start. I am a solo musician so at absolute most id only use 5 inputs at any given time but for instance its not just about the inputs on my scarlett 18i20, its the fact i can run 2 sets of monitors, i can re-amp much easier and leave the cable permanently plugged in. Run a headphone amp from it, etcetc. Its a 60db gain on preamps which is not ideal, it will struggle to record some of those hungry ribbon mics like the RB500, and even the 57 if recording a delicate classical guitar (which i successfully did using that apogee duetII), that duet you mentioned that i also own has 70db gain on preamps and will run any mic. Clean. But its a 2input which is useless for me. Makes jobs like dual mikin my amp impossible as i always like to capture a DI signal too.

The scarlett 18i20 is cheaper than the duetII also. Considerably. I own both and never use my duet anymore but i kept it just incase i decide to take my laptop on a trip with me somewhere.

If 60db gain doesnt power a hungry mic I have sufficient. I just use the ARTtubeMP to give the extra clean power to the mic, but its only a problem if recording delicate guitar on my ribbon at a healthy distance 0.75-1Metre distance.

I use 5 inputs at any given time very rarely, but 4 inputs is very common for me. Dualmics on guitar cab +Di and a room mic take this into consideration before you buy a 2 or 3 input audio interface..... even kickass ones like the apogee duet.

I see you dont have a budget condenser mic yet.... more important to buy one of those for now unless you can spare the cash for a new mic and interface senseless buying a 4 or more input interface if nothing to plug in to the inputs hehe
 
I've always thought it totally pointless going with more expensive interfaces and preamps before you do any recording. So many people never, ever need to increase the 'perceived quality'. A few of us who have really nice microphones, superb recording environments and excellent loudspeakers, might then wonder about adding a preamp, or swapping out the modest interface for a 'better' one, but to get a benefit, you need your ears tuning. So many things in recording cannot be certain from reading, only listening. The SM57 is like a set of solid All Weather tyres for your car - chunky tread, long lasting, solid and tough - but you could have bought a set of narrow profile, softer rubber and micro grooved tyres for a lot more money. The all weather's are not bad tyres are they, and they'll manage is sun, snow and water. The other ones can't do snow and ice, and off-road is out. The SM57 is the all weather microphone.
 
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