Drum Recording ... To Compress or not to Compress...that is the question

rjbutchko said:
Okay, I've given up on trying to fix what is essentially just a crappy recording. I know, I know, 11 out of 10 people have said that you can't really do that, you gotta get it right and compression be damned, but I guess I just had to learn for myself


I'm starting to get better stuff recorded without gates, compressors, etc., but for some reason everything sounds a little muffled. I only have a cheap peavey 2 bus mixer, some effects (which I'm not using for now) and an akai dps12. No cool monitors, just stereo speakers. I know I'm going to have to spend more $$$, but I am determined to get good stuff down on my less than perfect equipment first.

Ron

BTW, Andy... Congratulations!!!


Thanks, Ron...
hey...if you want to list out your mics, any compressors or outboard gear that you have, how many piece drum kit you're mic'ing, what kind of room you're recording them in (room dimensions, shape, materials, etc...) , and what kind of sound you're looking for, and i'd be happy to give you some tips on getting a better sound...be sure to be detailed...(eq points on your mixer, specific models of fx, monitors, etc...)
with this information i can get a better idea of what you're working with...
later,
andy
 
Experiment heavily with mic placement! Take your time and try some different things. Proper mic placement can eliminate the need for many gates. You can get reasonably good isolation between drums/cymbals just by moving a mic a couple inches. Even if you don't have a zillion dollars in microphones, I'll bet if you try this you'll be amazed.
 
just because you have seperate tracks for the drum mics doesnt mean it will sound right on playback. Eq'ing is very important to make the drum tracks fit along with the rest of the instruments.

i dont see how using gates helps anything more then cutting down background noise at the beggining and end of the recording.
 
actually....the drummer, the drums, and the room that they're in are ALL FAR MORE IMPORTANT than anything else...
mics, compressors, and eq are ALL SECONDARY....
andy
 
Andy,

It would be tough to list ALL settings, because in a fit of stupidity I threw out the track sheets for the tracks I was having problems with but here's a list of what I've got. (bear in mind that I'm completely new to recording, so I have been working on a shoestring so far)


1 sm57 (snare)
1 sm 48 (overhead)
1 sm58 (toms)
1 beta56(kick)

1 peavey 12/2 mixer
2 ALESIS 3630s (I know, everyone says there crap)
1 dbx 286a mic pre
1 microverb3
1 proco patch bay

1 AKAI dps12 recorder

The room is a smallish concrete walled basement room.
This friday I'm going to dampen the room by hanging carpeted plywood. (please note that I said dampen, not soundproof) I know that part of my problem has been with the sound bouncing off the walls every which way.

Monty,

Yeah, the only mic placement experementation I've been able to pull off so far has been on the snare and the kick. The walls in my basement....

enenmyofthesun,

The reason for the gates was to try to get a little seperation in the indevidual tracks so that I could raise certain drum levels up and pull others back. Maybe this is a bit misguided or even over my head at this point, but like I said, I'm new.

So far, the only thing I've successfully used any compression on has been bass. I havn't needed it on guitars, and I've got completly seperate issues with vocals.

Ron
 
Andy,

It would be tough to list ALL settings, because in a fit of stupidity I threw out the track sheets for the tracks I was having problems with but here's a list of what I've got. (bear in mind that I'm completely new to recording, so I have been working on a shoestring so far)


1 sm57 (snare)
1 sm 48 (overhead)
1 sm58 (toms)
1 beta56(kick)

1 peavey 12/2 mixer
2 ALESIS 3630s (I know, everyone says there crap)
1 dbx 286a mic pre
1 microverb3
1 proco patch bay

1 AKAI dps12 recorder

The room is a smallish concrete walled basement room.
This friday I'm going to dampen the room by hanging carpeted plywood. (please note that I said dampen, not soundproof) I know that part of my problem has been with the sound bouncing off the walls every which way.

Monty,

Yeah, the only mic placement experementation I've been able to pull off so far has been on the snare and the kick. The walls in my basement....

enenmyofthesun,

The reason for the gates was to try to get a little seperation in the indevidual tracks so that I could raise certain drum levels up and pull others back. Maybe this is a bit misguided or even over my head at this point, but like I said, I'm new.

So far, the only thing I've successfully used any compression on has been bass. I havn't needed it on guitars, and I've got completly seperate issues with vocals.

Ron
 
rjbutchko said:
Andy,

It would be tough to list ALL settings, because in a fit of stupidity I threw out the track sheets for the tracks I was having problems with but here's a list of what I've got. (bear in mind that I'm completely new to recording, so I have been working on a shoestring so far)


1 sm57 (snare)
1 sm 48 (overhead)
1 sm58 (toms)
1 beta56(kick)

1 peavey 12/2 mixer
2 ALESIS 3630s (I know, everyone says there crap)
1 dbx 286a mic pre
1 microverb3
1 proco patch bay

1 AKAI dps12 recorder

The room is a smallish concrete walled basement room.
This friday I'm going to dampen the room by hanging carpeted plywood. (please note that I said dampen, not soundproof) I know that part of my problem has been with the sound bouncing off the walls every which way.

Ron

hi Ron....try this....

1) put the drums in the corner of the room facing diagonally towards the center of the room...this will help kill "some" of the phasing and reflection problems....

2) mic the kick with the beta 56, inside the drum, about 10 inches from the beater...have it coming in from the side of the drum, and facing diagonally toward the beater....

3) mic the snare with the 57...1-2 inches above the drum, pointing at where the stick hits the drum...it'll be angled slightly downward...the "head" of the 57 should be about 1" inside of the drum rim...

4) don't mic the tom....use the 48 and the 58 as overheads...put the 48 on one side of the kit (above the hi hat...), about 3 1/2 to 4 feet above the kit...point it toward the snare...put the 58 about 3 1/2 to 4 feet above the floor tom, pointed in the general direction of the snare...

5) i can't remember if the dbx 286 is a single channel pre...i think it is....anyway, use it on the snare mic (57) and run the output of it into one channel of the 3630...set the ratio to 4:1...threshold between -5 and 0....attack at a medium to medium fast setting....release to medium...run the out put of this direct into your recorder...(bypass the board) channel 2

6) run the kick mic (beta 56) into the board, and insert another channel of compression ...same setting, but a ratio of 3:1....run the output of this direct to channel 1 of your recorder

7) run the overheads into the console, pan 'em left and right, and run THE BOARDS outputs into channel 3 and 4 of your recorder...

8) monitor the sound directly from the recorder, either with headphones or your regular monitors...if the kick sounds a little thin, try flipping the phase...

9) move the overheads around a bit till they seem to create a balanced "picture" of the kit...

10) play...have fun...record.....

when you mix the drums down, if you need more "crack" to the snare, try boosting +3bd around 2-3khz...for more "thump" to the kick, try boosting +3db around 60-80hz...

i usually start to get my drum sound by starting with just the overheads...if they sound good, the rest is easy...bring up the overhead levels...then SLOWLY bring up the snare till the track sounds like its moving....then SLOWLY bring up the kick till it starts making your booty shake :) ...you have drums !!!

i also try to use good drum heads...i like single ply coated heads...i think they sound the best for recording...

don't forget how much sticks effect the sound..thicker sticks = thicker sound....

best of luck,
andy
 
Thanks, Andy. Moving the drums around is going to be a challenge, but I'll try just about anything. I managed to dampen the sound bouncing off the walls with sytrofoam sheets, the dark grey foam that electrnic devices are sometimes packed in, a foam rubber mattress pad and a bunch of moving blankets. The drums are sounding a little better already and as an added bonus, there isn't any feedback from vocal mics when were jamming live !!! :)


I'm going to try the signal routing you suggested and we'll see what happens.

thanks again

Ron
 
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