Drum Click Track Vs. No Drum Click Track question

[dvincent]

Hi all - Ok We recorded a standard rock drum track into Protools 5.3 (no click on this version) - snare, kick, hihat, etc - 5 tracks - with NO CLICK. It turned out pretty good but there seems to be a little drift in tempo here and there. Just a few milliseconds but I notice it. It bugs me. No grid either. My question is: what do the PROS do in this situation? Why do the tempos always sound perfect on the radio? The reason we used no click in the first place is because the song has different timing parts. I've heard where many pros DONT use a click track - Even Ringo said he didnt with the Beatles. Any real life takes here? thanks

 

[ez_willis]

Even Ringo said he didnt with the Beatles. Any real life takes here? thanks

Ringo is a bad example.

In the future, get yourself a cheap drum machine, like an Alesis SR-16. You can program a click with tempo changes at the exact spot that the tempo should change.

I'm a big fan of consistant meter and tempo.

 

[Todzilla]

There's another huge benefit to recording to a click.

If you record to a click that's aligned to the DAW software you're using, you can easily edit your material to the bar or beat, move takes around to thicken existing lines and all around circumvent the sequence of the song which otherwise will dictate your performances.

Unless you just have a wicked live vibe groove that must live on, I highly recommend cutting to a click.

 

[liv_rong]

i record the instruments first to a click, and add the drums last.

i find it easier to play to the instruments and get a better feel then to play to a click track. for some reason i just cant hold it down on a click when im playing drums. but i can play fine if the music in perfect, kinda strange, but thats what i do

 

[Track Rat]

I VERY rarely use a click track. In my experience, good drummers don't need one and bad drummers can't play to one.

 

[liv_rong]

I VERY rarely use a click track. In my experience, good drummers don't need one and bad drummers can't play to one.

yeah i suck

 

[Seafroggys]

I am not a fan of click tracks, its too unnatural for me. Blame disco for the introduction of click tracks into modern recordings. Before the mid late 70s, they never used them. They just played.

 

[Cosmic]

Why do the tracks sound perfect on the radio? In many cases because the drummers are good and play to a click, or are good and choose not to play to a click.

In other cases it's because because the engineer can use Beat Detective or similar to snap them into place in Pro Tools.

AutoTune isn't the only crutch for the musically shaky.

Best,
C.

 

[Reggie]

In my experience, good drummers don't need one and bad drummers can't play to one.

Haha, yes this is the correct answer. Actually, it is really nice when you get a drummer that wants to record to a click and can actually do it. Makes editting and setting up tempo effects so much easier. But I really prefer not to use a click for most people, simply because it adds too much time and frustration for (typically) little audible benefit. The instruments first thing hardly ever works out tight enough for me either.

 

[Bulls Hit]

If that performance is the one, and the tempo drift doesn't adversely affect the groove, it wouldn't bother me.

If it does bother me, I'll stretch or shrink the tempo of the offending parts in Reaper. If it's only marginally out, any artifacts should be unnoticeable

 

[ez_willis]

In my experience, good drummers don't need one and bad drummers can't play to one.

So what do you label a mediocre drumber who opts to use one to have a song with solid meter?

I'm not going to bother with the click argument again.

 

[aidan_m]

As a drummer I prefer recording with a click.. lets me get on with the performance and not think about tempo..

As an engineer makes life 100 times simpler for editing rearranging bits etc..

 

[Track Rat]

So what do you label a mediocre drumber who opts to use one to have a song with solid meter?

I grab the old Sr-16 off the shelf and set up a click track Then I set back and giiggle as he does 4 or 5 takes and makes up excuses why he keeps crashing and burning

 

[kludge]

Hi all - Ok We recorded a standard rock drum track into Protools 5.3 (no click on this version) - snare, kick, hihat, etc - 5 tracks - with NO CLICK. It turned out pretty good but there seems to be a little drift in tempo here and there. Just a few milliseconds but I notice it. It bugs me. No grid either. My question is: what do the PROS do in this situation? Why do the tempos always sound perfect on the radio? The reason we used no click in the first place is because the song has different timing parts. I've heard where many pros DONT use a click track - Even Ringo said he didnt with the Beatles. Any real life takes here? thanks

Load some of those classic tracks into your DAW, and you'll find THEIR tempo drifts a bit, too. Then again, they didn't have a grid to worry about, right? If they had to do an edit, they spliced it with a razor blade.

In my experience, live tracking as a group is MUCH better for the sense of time and vibe than a click track. I don't know WHY I play better with other people in a room than with recordings of other people (or myself), but I do.

 

[ez_willis]

I grab the old Sr-16 off the shelf and set up a click track Then I set back and giiggle as he does 4 or 5 takes and makes up excuses why he keeps crashing and burning

I'm not a drummer, but I record my own drum tracks(it's easier than having a 'drummer' do it ), personally, I think it's way easier to record with a click, but it's how I learned to play.

 

[Reggie]

I'm not a drummer, but I record my own drum tracks(it's easier than having a 'drummer' do it ), personally, I think it's way easier to record with a click, but it's how I learned to play.

For some "drumbers" when they record is the only time they try to play to a click, usually with little success.

 

[Farview]

Playing to a click is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. It isn't something that anyone can just decide to do one day and be great at it the next.

Tons of albums were done without a click and the tempo does vary. You don't notice because the feel makes sense for the song. You also probably aren't over-analysing old Zepplin albums like you are your own thing.

If the feel of your stuff isn't working, the only thing you can really do is slave it to a grid. That means mapping out the tempo changes, cutting the performance up into little pieces and moving them to the grid. Or, you could do what they used to do before computer editing... Play it again until it feels right.

 

[JuliánFernández]

I VERY rarely use a click track. In my experience, good drummers don't need one and bad drummers can't play to one.

Oh man, that´s simply not TRUE. As a working drummer, I tell you, I play a lot of gigs with a click track, and it´s not that I *need* it, is just most MD ask for it (in a rock/pop/funk context).

The click track is a tool. You should be able to nail a track to a click; and then decide if you want to do it that way or old-school way.

(btw, Antonio Sanchez -with Pat Metheny- is playing to a click almost every song of their live set... is not about being good or not. Is just a BASIC skill you have to have in order to became a pro)

 

[Farview]

Oh man, that´s simply not TRUE. As a working drummer, I tell you, I play a lot of gigs with a click track, and it´s not that I *need* it, is just most MD ask for it (in a rock/pop/funk context).

The click track is a tool. You should be able to nail a track to a click; and then decide if you want to do it that way or old-school way.

(btw, Antonio Sanchez -with Pat Metheny- is playing to a click almost every song of their live set... is not about being good or not. Is just a BASIC skill you have to have in order to became a pro)

This is true. Most pro drummers have to play to a click, even live. A lot of shows have production flown in as the band is playing (additional keys, vocal parts, sound FX, etc...) Also, a lot of times things like video screens and light systems are all programmed to run off of time code. The drummer is fed a click so that the show is in sync with the music.

Anyone that thinks that playing to a click is sterile has never worked with a drummer that can do it well.

That said, if you have to choose between perfection and vibe (because the band is not capable of playing to a click with vibe) I would choose vibe every time.

 

[ez_willis]

There's a common misconception about playing to a click. A click does not equate to a lack of groove or feel. It gives you a reference point to drop the beat on top of, right on, or on the back side of. It's the drumbers job to place that beat in the appropriate place, which they commonly screw up.