Doubling Vocals

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turtle_michael

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Doubling vocals usually shows up in just about any modern recording.

But I find it difficult. Not so much the timing, which if you know the melody you should be able to sing it again.

But the little nuances that make each take unique sometimes gets annoying.

How many times has a singer done a performance at a studio and when done the producer might say...THAT'S THE TAKE!

So, how do you do it again, if that was THE take.

I find it easier in phrases that dont have vibrato in them, but when singing vibrato, I dont believe the vibrato comes out exactly the same way twice, subtle inflections one way or another but this tends to make the track messy. Or shouts, screams, whispers, gulps, sighs, I mean how do you get those exactly the same twice.

I mean if you record the perfect vocal, what are the chances of recording it again 5 minutes later?

I found every take is slightly different, and I know that is why it has the effect it does, but it needs to be as close as possible to the original to work right, and I find it hard to do it.

How do you achieve this?
 
Well....like you said....you do a bunch of takes and find the right groove.

After that....you edit. :)

I find that when tracking, especially vocals/leads....I try to bang out 3-5 takes in quick succession. No punch-ins, no breaks in-between to go listen to the playback...just do one, RW, do a second, RW, do a third...etc.
Also, before you get to those 3-5 keeper takes....run through the song as many times as you need to first find the groove. For some folks, that may be just 1-2 warm up passes....others may need 10....whatever, just don't blow out your voice doing too many. IOW do only enough to get you there, and then do the 3-5 keepers.

After that....really...it's editing and comping in the DAW, unless you just like doing 3 dozen more takes looking for the perfect two that match from start to finish.
And....better/experienced singers get the dual vocal groove easier, but then take more work...so not everyone you hear on the radio with double tracked vocals did it in just two takes! :D

Finally...you have to maybe step back and decide just how close you think they need to be. As you said, it's the little differences that make double-tracked vocals sound cool when done well....otherwise, if they had to be identical, everyone would just copy the tracks, but that won't work, 'cuz then they will sound the same, like one voice, only louder.
 
I dont think you can edit inflections just timing issues. If one line ends with a slight breathiness, and the other ends with less breathiness, and maybe
a tad behind or in front, it now sounds sloppy. The voice is so complex that I dont think it can be doubled perfectly.

Im an experienced vocalist, the groove is not the problem, the changes in the vocals dynamics can be controlled, but not the sound of it. Maybe one line the vibrato rolls off a smidgen earlier than the previous one. One line is scratchier the other smoother, one seems to go smoothly over one word, but not so the others, wheras the second one will go smoothly in different parts.

I have yet to hear a vocal double from home recording people that sounds great, although some sound good. Commercial recordings always sound good, I guess the mix helps

And I realize not everybody on the radio does it in two takes, lucky if they do it in 20
 
Do a bunch of takes and then edit, finding the best of two words/phrases from any of the takes.

I mean....you CAN get it real close, it just takes some work....but again, how close/perfect does it really need to be *in the context of the song*...?
 
The trick is to have as much control over what you are doing as possible. If the inflections are different every time, then you are not fully in control of your performance. If you can't actually double yourself with acceptable results, an effect might be an answer, or bury the double down about 6db or so, so it adds depth and support without noticing the issues.
 
Farview said:
bury the double down about 6db or so, so it adds depth and support without noticing the issues.
Click to expand...

That's probably the ticket for anything less than "perfect" doubling. I heard a track a few weeks ago from an excellent singer, but what I heard at times sounded like phase issues (left to right changes that sounded like a chorus effect). When I asked him if he had doubled the vocal track, he told me he had recorded it twice, panned one full left and one full right.
I'll ususually keep the 'secondary' track at a lower volume and if there are any real 'problem' areas, lower the volume further. Also foiund that for some songs, doubling only some accent lines (like the last line of a verse) can work better than doubling all the lines. As miro suggests, I usually will lay down one lead take after another (3-5) first. Then I'll mute all but what I consider the best (quick listen) to do the harmonies. When I get to the real mix down stage if I find something wrong/missing on the takes, I'll go back and do them all again.
 
part of the 'art' of making music, is getting good enough at singing that you can nail multiple takes.

i don't think you want everything to line up perfectly, that takes all the humanity out of it...
but you want the timing of the breaths, entry and outro of each line, all that, to be right...

it's worth working hard at.
 
if you drop it down you dont get the same effect, obviously.

Anybody who is a singer knows what Im talking about, vocal control is one thing, the unique sound your voice puts out is different every time you speak, Id rather not double at all if Im going to hide it for flaws
 
Yeah, becoming a good studio musician.singer is different than being a good musician/singer. The real musicians are the ones who play live.
but they may not perform as well in a studio.

it's not really working hard at singing, it's working hard at recording yourself. This on top of all the other stuff you have to do such as play, write, arrange, record and sing. Only so much time in the day
 
Being able to double yourself well relies on the singer doing everything on purpose. Singers that just let the feeling carry them always have a hard time with doubling, since they have no idea what they are going to do until they are doing it. It isn't planned out. These types of singers shouldn't bother doubling the vocals. It will make away from the emotion that is driving the performance.

besides, the more vocal layers you pile on, the less intimate and less aggressive the vocal becomes.
 
mjbphotos said:
I heard a track a few weeks ago from an excellent singer, but what I heard at times sounded like phase issues ....
Click to expand...

Yeah...sometimes you get that even when trying to add Backup Vocals to the Lead Vocal. When everyone hits the "sssssss" at the end of a word....it can be real tight or sometimes with the smallest differences...and will still make it "whoosh" with phase.

I just did a song with a female singer (over in the MP3)...and we sang it as a duet, so both our vocals are up the middle pretty much and with equal intensity...and man, there were spots where no matter how I nudged and EQ'd....when we hit the "ssssssss" sounds, it was giving me phase issues in a few spots. Took a lot of minute audio "mangling" to minimize that.
 
There are alot of not so talented female pop singers, take dance tracks singers who double and get it done. So to blame it on the singer,
I dont think is the whole thing. They are probably made to sing it a million times, or the magic happens at the recording console
 
turtle_michael said:
There are alot of not so talented female pop singers, take dance tracks singers who double and get it done. So to blame it on the singer,
I dont think is the whole thing. They are probably made to sing it a million times, or the magic happens at the recording console
Click to expand...

Even though everyone likes to imagine that certain female pop singers have not talent, it is not completely true. They are normally pretty good at doing exactly what they are told. With that talent, comes the repeatability it takes to get the Jove done. There is also a lot of editing, pitch correction, etc...

The better singers I get in the studio will actually phase on the whole performance because they are repeating the performance that exactly when they double. It takes practice. Not practice singing, but practice doubling yourself. You have to actually pay attention ti what you did the first time and/or make a decision about every breath and inflection you are going to do.
 
Farview said:
Even though everyone likes to imagine that certain female pop singers have not talent, it is not completely true. They are normally pretty good at doing exactly what they are told. With that talent, comes the repeatability it takes to get the Jove done. There is also a lot of editing, pitch correction, etc...

The better singers I get in the studio will actually phase on the whole performance because they are repeating the performance that exactly when they double. It takes practice. Not practice singing, but practice doubling yourself. You have to actually pay attention ti what you did the first time and/or make a decision about every breath and inflection you are going to do.
Click to expand...

They imagine they dont have talent, because they dont. Stop assuming I know nothing about music. I know they are talented, but they are not amazing vocalists, you know like the kind you hear doing JINGLES for a few hundred bucks.

Taylor Swift is a good pop writer and a halfway decent singer, but I bet her doubled vocals come out better than anybody you have recorded, and it;s not because of her singing talent
 
Freddie Mercury often phased when he multi-tracked his vocals. Its actually quite audible on many Queen recordings.
 
turtle_michael said:
Stop assuming.................

I bet her doubled vocals come out better than anybody you have recorded,
Click to expand...
Yeah, you got to hate it when people make assumptions without knowing anything about the person they're talking to. :rolleyes:
 
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