Double track vocal errors

maxman65

Member
Does anyone do a lot of double track vocals . I'm getting pitch errors particularly on sustained notes . Somehow I'm beginning to think that listening to the primary vocal might be contributing to this . Only problem there if I mute it I'm likely to get the lyric phrasing going out of sync. (Live double tracking not cloning etc )
 
Im must admit this happens with my fairly average voice with multi-tracked BVs, and I can make it much better by turning down the overall volume in the headphones which seems to clean up my pitching. That said, the new align and tune tools in Cubase which I use mean it doesn't matter any longer. The take alignment tool is truly brilliant. Designate which take is the master, and it tidies up the phrasing with a mouse click!
 
If you are doubling or tripling vocals, you need to get good at singing things the same way every time. Every inflection needs to be done on purpose. Then, it doesn't matter if you have the original in your headphones or not.
 
I have encountered an assortment of vocalists in my recording experience, and I've noted two broad types. The first is the melody singer who can't harmonize easily . . . they can only sing the melody line they've learnt, and if you try to get them to sing a harmony, they keep dropping back to the melody. However, these singers seem to be great at double tracking, because they sing the melody the same way every time. On the other hand, I've had great harmonizers who can conjure up the most wonderful harmonies off the cuff, but have real difficulty remembering how they sang a bit before. They find precise double tracking very difficult, and their phrasing is different from take to take. (There are, of course, many variations of all the above.)

If someone is finding precise tracking difficult, then one way of making it easier is to record smaller chunks so that they don't have to remember how they sang the whole song. Record them singing a verse, then record a double straight away. Or even do it line by line. If you find them hesitating in their second vocal because they are listening to their first vocal for cues, turn it off.
 
I'm just a home recording guy but I love double tracking lead vocal (as well as backing). Primarily because I don't have a strong vocal. I've been doubling since the 90's with analog recordings. The first thing I always notice that is always problematic is the variation of the volumes. It can really mess me up. Meaning -- the volume variation in the headphone mix of the recorded take to the volume of the live vocal take. If you play with these variations and adjust the monitored recorded vocal volume to the live vocal monitored volume, you'll eventually find your sweet spot.

Lastly, don't beat yourself up too bad by trying to be incredibly precise. YouTube is a gold mine of isolated vocal tracks. There are plenty of doubled vocals to hear isolated. And you quickly discover many, many artists are not at all precise. Frankly, far from it. Some of the worst double tracked vocals come from the Beatles of all people/bands. Yet, in my opinion, therein lies the character and the beauty of double tracking. The thickness and strength.
 
I usually recommend doing more takes and comping them together.

If I want to get two matching takes, I'll do at least 3 (good takes; I throw out bad ones) and pick whichever 2 match.
If I want triple-tracked, I'll do at least 5.
 
I usually recommend doing more takes and comping them together.

If I want to get two matching takes, I'll do at least 3 (good takes; I throw out bad ones) and pick whichever 2 match.
If I want triple-tracked, I'll do at least 5.

Yes....^^^^^^.....what VHS says is so true. There's almost no way that most of us "average" home recording vocalists will ever do a double track perfectly. What I've done to correct errors is to do the "error" part over again on another track until it's acceptable. Whatever number of errors I have usually determines how many tracks I'll use to correct that part of the vocal double. An error can be a pitch problem or any other issue in the original double track. Then...of course....stitching them all together is fairly easy.
 
Lots of good ideas . Have played around with relative monitoring levels and I feel there's something in that too . Apart from that keep trying I guess . Watched a few youtube videos on vocal coaches explaining technique for sustaining long notes . That's where it's tough in particular. Yes bolting bit together is also a good idea . I just need to get something decent enough to bolt .
 
I fall into the melody singer group... have a real hard time singing harmony without falling back into the melody which also may be why I usually can sing the melody parts the same every time. That being said... in my experience laying down vocal takes in a loop section by section (allowing the vocalist to sing the same phrases over and over) without listening to any "double" in the mix will probably help get more precise takes. You can then either comp sections that way or then have a singer do a few more "full song" takes afterwards as now they've probably built up their memory of how to sing the song the same way... basically they've practiced a lot now after doing all the section by section takes and it becomes second nature. It's the difference between writing/singing a song that hasn't been created yet to singing a song that you've already heard and know.

As for harmonies, the only way I can record them is to chop up some of the melody takes and tune them to the correct pitches that I want to sing for the harmony and only play those takes in the background of the mix and then just do the same loop section/take record cycle trick as before but now trying to sing the proper harmony. Hope this helps.
 
As for harmonies, the only way I can record them is to chop up some of the melody takes and tune them to the correct pitches that I want to sing for the harmony and only play those takes in the background of the mix and then just do the same loop section/take record cycle trick as before but now trying to sing the proper harmony. Hope this helps.

I have recorded a few singers who have real difficulty singing a harmony.

What I have done for them is record a harmony part using an instruments (usually a piano).

I then solo this, using solo-in-front so that they can hardly heard their already recorded melody, but enough to cue them, put it in a loop and go round and round with them singing along until the latch onto it. We can get a reasonable harmony part recorded this way, even if we do it phrase by phrase.

This is also something you can do, but it depends on you being able to create that harmony part first.
 
Like VHS, I do at least 3 takes of the lead vocal. And I do it without any of the previous tracks in the headphones. IF I find that on of the later tracks I changed the phrasing/timing, and I like it, I will record still more tracks. If a bridge or different part is hard to get to from the previous part, I will comp those on different tracks as well.
Then when mixing a doubled track, I will select the best track as the main vocal, and then comp pieces from the other tracks (as they fit) for the doubling. I also tend to NOT double every line of the song.
For a long sustained note where your double is going off-pitch, just add a little Tuning (I use ReaTune,) very moderately.
 
I really don't like double tracked vocals at all, better to get a good vocal take and use that. A lot of singers try to double track at my studio to cover up deficiencies in their vocals, basically I now get 2 deficient vocal takes that when put together have timing and pitching problems.

Get one good take and fatten it up by using processing, there are many good software plugins that can double track the vocals if you really want that sound. Using a slight chorus effect on a single vocal can sound a lot like double tracking, but don't over do it.

John Lennon used to double track the early Beatles until the Abby Road engineers came up with an effects unit that could do it for him (he was sick of having to do it LOL).

Alan.
 
I really don't like double tracked vocals at all, better to get a good vocal take and use that. A lot of singers try to double track at my studio to cover up deficiencies in their vocals, basically I now get 2 deficient vocal takes that when put together have timing and pitching problems.

Get one good take and fatten it up by using processing, there are many good software plugins that can double track the vocals if you really want that sound. Using a slight chorus effect on a single vocal can sound a lot like double tracking, but don't over do it.

John Lennon used to double track the early Beatles until the Abby Road engineers came up with an effects unit that could do it for him (he was sick of having to do it LOL).

Alan.

Interestingly, John Lennon was brilliant at double-tracking, but yes, he got bored with doing it.

I also experience singers who use double tracking as a way to cover up deficiencies. However, I don't have any particular opposition to the technique itself, and like other techniques, it sits there in the tool bag of things you can call upon where appropriate.
 
Interestingly, John Lennon was brilliant at double-tracking, but yes, he got bored with doing it.

I also experience singers who use double tracking as a way to cover up deficiencies. However, I don't have any particular opposition to the technique itself, and like other techniques, it sits there in the tool bag of things you can call upon where appropriate.

I don't say I never use it (I never say never)but I'm not too fond of it. However John Lennon was the master of it, in fact you would be hard pressed to tell it was double tracked most of the time.

One interesting double track I did do was my wife's vocals on an old album from a band we were in together. I had recorded 5 vocal takes and really liked 2 of them the most (in fact they were all good) When I mixed used the 2 takes, I had one take with very little compression and the other absolutly smashed with compression. It was kind of parallel compression but with different takes. It really did make a fat vocal track. The funny thing is we never originally meant it to be double tracked so she sang them without hearing any other takes in the phones. Nailed the pitch and timing without even trying.

Alan.
 
2x+ tracking is my preferred method for fattening up vox. Every time I try it with FX, it starts sounding too processed.
 
2x+ tracking is my preferred method for fattening up vox. Every time I try it with FX, it starts sounding too processed.

Agreed. I've tried a number of double tracking FX and none of them are really that good. Probably because I know they're an effect and not the real thing. Most average listeners wouldn't think as much about it I would guess. I have had a tiny bit of success by moving a second track slightly late (in varying degrees) of the original and experimenting with some effects on the second track. The same formula doesn't work on everything so it's a matter trial and error. Nothing beats a real live double if that's what you need. Thickening a vocal is also very subjective. My voice is fat by nature so double tracking it is much harder than a thinner voice IMO. Just rambling........
 
Yes I agree . I briefly toyed with the idea of one of these doublers e.g. the helicon but went off the idea quite quickly . There's something artificial sounding about a digitised copy . Ideally I think what was said earlier (Farview I think ) that you simply don't monitor back the first vocal at all which gives you total focus on the pitch that's in front of you . That however in practice is not going to be easy unless the phrasing is set in stone .
 
Yes I agree . I briefly toyed with the idea of one of these doublers e.g. the helicon but went off the idea quite quickly . There's something artificial sounding about a digitised copy . Ideally I think what was said earlier (Farview I think ) that you simply don't monitor back the first vocal at all which gives you total focus on the pitch that's in front of you . That however in practice is not going to be easy unless the phrasing is set in stone .

That's what I do. Practicing the song and then doing multiple takes eventually gets the phrasing, inflections, etc similar. Slight timing issues are easy to handle with a little nudging of phrases.
 
Try doing it one line or phrase at a time. That allows you to hear a short section and while it’s fresh in your mind you can more easily repeat it with all its characteristics. Punch in and punch out if you’re on a stand alone.
 
I briefly toyed with the idea of one of these doublers e.g. the helicon but went off the idea quite quickly . There's something artificial sounding about a digitised copy . Ideally I think what was said earlier (Farview I think ) that you simply don't monitor back the first vocal at all which gives you total focus on the pitch that's in front of you . That however in practice is not going to be easy unless the phrasing is set in stone .

If I had unlimited money, one thing I would definitely invest in is getting someone to make compact wormhole technology. Then I'd put it in a pedal so that you could send and receive a signal from a parallel universe that is slightly ahead/behind our own. It would be the perfect doubling technology!

I'd also use it for HVAC but on a 6 month delay.
 
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