DI or no DI, that is my question!

S

soundsearcher

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I have a high-end preamp that has a 1/4" direct input.
I've used this in the past to record bass and electric guitar with some success.
I've been reading the importance of using a DI box for recording electric guitar directly into your signal chain when using amp modeling plugins.
Since my pre-amp already has a direct input (DI) do I need a DI box?
Would a DI box provide better sound quality?
 
no. you dont need one, as in you can record with the DI.

if you need one because you dont like your bass setup then you might need one.

It sounds uneeded but I grabbed a Radial JDI and its nice easy interface, easy to plug in and it goes into my XLR preamp then to the DAW.(it needs a preamp) I have a DI in the mic preamps here, and they sound great too. I can go direct into the Interface and a plugin Bass amp too.
 
soundsearcher said:
I have a high-end preamp that has a 1/4" direct input.
I've used this in the past to record bass and electric guitar with some success.
I've been reading the importance of using a DI box for recording electric guitar directly into your signal chain when using amp modeling plugins.
Since my pre-amp already has a direct input (DI) do I need a DI box?
Would a DI box provide better sound quality?
Click to expand...

Stay with what works. A DI is only necessary to get enough level to a regular mic level input. Various differences in topology offer different "flavors" sonically but a great sounding preamp is as good or better than most DI's
 
A lot of it depends on impedance relationships. A 1/4 line input will be high impedance compared to an XLR mic input. Instrument inputs are higher impedance than line. An input on a guitar amp for example might be 1 or 2 megaohms, or "very high". Sometimes you can switch a 1/4 input between line and instrument, or the input could have some kind of auto detection thing happening. I would think a preamp with a 1/4 "DI" input should be suitable for instruments, so you shouldn't need a separate direct box if that's the case.

A guitar with a passive pickup system would benefit more from having a higher input impedance on the device it's going into. Active pickups or preamps, or keyboards or something already have a lower output impedance, so it's easier to maintain the "low feeds high" impedance relationship that you need. A suggestion a lot of people make is that an active source works well with a passive DI, and a passive source works well with an active DI.

Another possibility is using a pedal with a buffer, like a Boss in the chain. A "true bypass" pedal (no buffer) won't work, but a Boss pedal in bypass will still have a lower impedance output than a guitar once it goes through the buffer stage. It can help to give you a less anemic sound in some cases.
 
The impedance can make a sound difference.
Ive got one pre DI that does the >100K, the Radial JDI is 140k...my interface guitar input is 1meg that feeds the plugins.

all of them feed the interface either Line IN or Mic IN and all work with the PlugIns. I assume you are working with realtime plugins while tracking.
 
Gtoboy said:
A DI is only necessary to get enough level to a regular mic level input.
Click to expand...
Should say “...low enough level...” which frankly most passive guitars already are. A passive DI is always a voltage step-down. The real point of the DI is the way it reflects an impedance higher than that of the mic input, but if you do that via transformer, it always comes with attenuation.
 
The thing with guitars and some basses is that the tone changes with different amp impedances. Some types are more critical than others. If you know what it sounds like, plug it in and if it sounds good, hit record. If it doesn't sound right grab a DI and stick it into a mic input. Pick the nicest sounding. I have a couple of very expensive DI boxes and a dirt cheap beat up old transformer in a box. For years they ran via my patchbay. When I removed the patchbay in the studio rebuild I discovered channel 22 had the jack labelled 21 plugged into it. For ten years I'd been using the cheap DI as the primary one, not the expensive one.
 
Most guitars have a built in impedance knob. It can’t make a too low impedance input look bigger, but it can make “too high” impedance look smaller.
 
Thanks for the good feedback. To be more specific, I'm playing a Fender Strat and LP through the direct 1/4" input of a Pacifica pre-amp. I'm having a hard time getting a decent tone but maybe I'm not using the right amp modeling plugins. I'm using the built-in Logic amps as well as scuffham amp plugin. Any recommendations to get a good Fender amp clean tone with a DI or should I break down and try to record my amp directly?
 
Plenty of people record Strats DI'd to get a clean sound. In fact, the tone is usually exactly what comes out of the guitar. Can you get a good sound via your amp? If so, slap a mic on the speaker. It may be you are hearing exactly what the guitar sounds like, but you do like it, so need adjustment to alter it. I've never had issues with my Strat - anyway I connect it?
 
Despite the title, this thread is not about "DI boxes" it is about the eternal problem of getting an electric guitar tone that satisfies the plarer/recordist's expectations.
The fact is, IF you could tap into and "sniff" the signal coming out of your favourite Gitgods axe it would not sound REMOTELY like the sound you so crave on the album. (talking dirt here, ZZ Top et al)

The received wisdom, in some sort of order is...

Mic in front of a GOOD amp and capture that sound. Contrary tpb, that does not have to be window threatening, most amps sound good at 90dB SPL, loud yes but 1/2 hr of that is not going to do yer ears in.

Almost as good, a power soak with a line out.

Next: Line out from an amp's pre section, usually where the FX send emerges. Better on later amps is an 'Emulated' output.

Then DIs. Can be on the interface or a DI box and it is worth buying a really cheap passive jobby to start with, its low quality might get you the gunge you seek!

But then, better men than I (much!) have often said here "After all that faff, once in the mix (or outfront) no bugger can tell!"

Dave.
 
yeah, what is the DI box or preamp DI...or AMP + MIC?

This Paul raw bass track on Come Together is noisy, sounds like an amp with slight drum bleed, and some normal sounding bass in this raw form. It makes it seem like the gear or tones arent so special. Of course the end product was damn good, but all this worry of noise floor perfection and unobtainable sounds..makes me wonder. None of the samples below sound unobtainable..

The Motown sounds with the Flatwounds, muted-Fender rubber thing, heavy gauge is another sound. :listeningmusic:

Jamerson
What's Going On - Isolated Bass Track (James Jamerson) - YouTube
Ain't no mountain high enough - Isolated Bass Track - YouTube

McCartney
Paul McCartney & Wings - Jet (isolated bass) - YouTube
Come Together - Paul McCartney - Isolated Bass (The Beatles) - YouTube

my HR this morning Hey Bulldog riffs.....1. Radial JDI+interface pre 2. same with some reverb 3. JDI with plugins off 4. DMP3 DI 5. 73pre 6. 73pre>KT2A....
2020 Bass Test by ccb | Free Listening on SoundCloud
 
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ashcat_lt said:
I mean it’s usually marked Tone, but for most of its travel it is exactly the same as reducing the impedance of the input you’ve plugged into.
Click to expand...

W----ell, bit of a stretch. Firstly it is freuency dependant and its influence depends upon the various impedances of the variuous pups.

Dave.
 
So does plugging into a lower impedance. Until you get that control down below 5 or so, pretty much all it does is reduce the total parallel impedance seen by the pickups, lowering the cutoff of the RL lowpass created with the inductance of the coils. The capacitor mostly just stops that cutoff from going all the way down to 0Hz (dead short, silence), though it does start to resonate with the inductance at very low settings of the variable resistor. One could even calculate the setting on the T pot to make a 1M input sound like 500K (or whatever). I’ve done all kinds of modeling on this, it’s literally the same thing.
 
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