Be careful with your ears, before it's too late(A note on tinnitus) =/

S

Sabith

New member
Quick notes about me.... I don't like to listen to music when its loud, I don't play any electric instruments, don't go to live concerts, and I thought I kept very good care of my ears....... but...........

But now I have mild tinnitus, if U don't know what that is, well... it varies, but for me it is a CONSTANT high pitch whine in my ears. SO heed my warnings, and watchout. Just think how scarey it is to find out your hearin is F***ed up, when U want to be a pro recordin engineer.

So...... to avoid this
1. BUY a decibel meter..... itz worth the $60(can), and keep everything below 80db
2. Avoid loud music(concerts, in the car, whatever), or at least wear ear plugs.
3. Don't expose yourself to moderatly loud music/noise for too long, it has the same effect that listening to really loud music for a short time.
4. If your ears feel tired, let them rest don't push em.
5. If U get an ear infection get it checked out quickly, don't wait, this can weaken the ear and make it prone to being easily damaged
6. Get proper sleep to let your ears relax, it truly makes a difference
7. Take breaks while mixing for about 5-10 min ever 30-60min or so, go relax, think about what to do next or get something to eat.

I'm lucky that the whine isn't very loud, and with backround noise of any sort it's usually drowned out, I'd still rather not have it. And I can't listen to music very long any more because my ears have become REALLY sensitive to sound.... and now become very easily fatigued

Don't think that it won't happen to U, I am SOOOO careful with my ears, and it only took ONE slip up for me, and ANY damage U do to your ears is PERMANENT, you ears NEVER recover. Also, I'm only 19, so it doesn't matter how old/young U are.


A quick story about how it happend to me:
Well, about 2 months ago I was doing I was doing a lot of mixing. After a couple days my ears got that really fatigued feeling every day(U know, that deaf-like feeling U get after a really loud concert) but I ignored it and kept mixing. And I never mixed at very loud volumes(but remember, long exposure to sound is just as bad)but I did mix for long periods of time every single day. And after a week, I went to bed one night and noticed this high pitch whine.... and considering there was nothing electrical turned on in my room, I became very curious to why I was hearing this noise. So, I left my room went around the house and well.... realized my ears were the problem. So after 3 specialized doctors lookin at them, I'm officially stuck with it there is nothing they can do.

Please be careful,

Sabith

PS Most people hate ear plugs because of how drastically they change the sound, U can buy custom fit ear plugs that make things quiter, but also make things sound natural at the same time. Although they do make things sound a little different, its not drastic like with normal ear plugs. The cost about $150(can) for the pair, but are well worth it, I have a pair myself and I wear them a lot, quite comfy as well =)
 
Good post Sabith- Tinnitus can be a serious problem.

I took too many aspirin over a one week period....not very many but enough to give me tinnitus. That was about two years ago and I thought I was going to go crazy with the ringing in my ears, and especially at night when I was in bed and everything was completely quiet.

However, it went away (after two years) and I don't even notice it now and I feel really relieved. Alcohol and drugs will probably make my ears ring but I don't touch that stuff anymore. I'm definitely going to be careful about exposing myself to loud music, because I have a feeling that I am really susseptable to getting tinnitus.
 
I wasn't carefull......

I too am 19 and I'm also a drummer (oh boy), and for the first year and a half or so I played with no earplugs (Ohh, I was so STUPID!!) and I constantly have that ringing in my ears and it can get pretty loud sometimes. What really sucks is that my left ear hears a little bit differently than my right one (probably from the open high hat) and it drives me nuts that I can turn one ear to the speakers and here something then turn the other ear to it and hear something copletetly different (well not completely different but you get the idea). So I too have wondered how it would effect being an egineer, because you always hear about the "golden ears" of *insert name of pro engineer here* and it kinda sucks when you know you've got this riiiiiiing in your ear and that will never be able to compete with those guys with the "golden ears". Now that I'm older and "wiser" I never drum or go to concerts (or anything for that matter) with out earplugs and am very cautious about my hearing, but unfortunately I started worring about it too late. :(

-tkr
 
Thank you Mr. Oley

Back in high school (a long long time ago) my electronics teacher, Mr. Oley told me, if I were you, I'd learn to make hearing aids, because all your peers are listening to their music too loud, and when they reach my age they'll all be deaf. There was something very matter of fact about the way he said it, rather than preachy. When I went to college (a long long time ago) punk and hard core was the music of choice, and the shows were LOUD. I remember standing in front of the speakers for Husker Du, the Replacements, Loud Fast Rules, and so many other hot bands. But I always wore ear plugs. Yes, it killed the high end of the sound a little, but it was so nice to go home at the end of the night and be able to hear. I'd gone to a few shows without my plugs and been up all night with the loud ringing.

So the point is, I was lucky. Lucky to have Mr. Oley set me straight, and lucky that I got it through my thick skull and started wearing ear plugs before I did some major damage.

As an attorney I help people get disability benefits. Some of my clients have severe tinnitus and get to listen to a very loud high pitch squeel all day. Every day.

If you're around a lot of loud noise and you haven't ruined your hearing yet, you're lucky, but that luck could run out any time. My post is meandering but hopefully you can "hear" what I'm saying.
 
c7sus said:
My mids and highs were about 45-55% IN 1993! That's something that just can't be fixed.
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I'm just lucky that my freq response and sensitivity tests came out flawless. But I still have that stupid ringing.....

Plus avoid Drugs like legal or illegal that U don't need to take, asprin actually is a common problem with tinnitus patients, it tends to make it worse :eek:

along with alcohol.......... heh.... something I need to stay away from :p

Anyways, keep those ears healthy, no ears = no engineerin job

Sabith
 
Sorry to hear that Sabith. Have you been to a specialist?
I realize I've been really lucky, half a friggin century old and every year at my AES eartest the results are that of someone 2 decades younger. Despite the fact I did sound for some of the loudest bands in the '70's, including The Who.
Always have been very careful - never been to a gig without earplugs - got laughed at a lot for wearing plugs, Some of the best earplugs? Take the filter of a cigarette, remove the paper, split the filter in half, roll each half into a little ball for one ear. Lets sound through with an EQ the same or better than special earplugs.
 
Sorry to hear that Sabith. Have you been to a specialist?
I realize I've been really lucky, half a friggin century old and every year at my AES eartest the results are that of someone 2 decades younger. Despite the fact I did sound for some of the loudest bands in the '70's, including The Who.
Always have been very careful - never been to a gig without earplugs - got laughed at a lot for wearing plugs, Some of the best earplugs? Take the filter of a cigarette, remove the paper, split the filter in half, roll each half into a little ball for one ear. Lets sound through with an EQ the same or better than special earplugs.
You'd be amazed how many 'old timers' have serious loss. Sometimes in the studio it is a pain, as often their hearing loss results in an over sensitivity towards some midrange frequencies. In other words, they are inclined to want you to cut and boost stuff the wrong way. Solution - run a frequency test on them - and they'll just let you get on with the job :)
 
heheh yep......... I've been to my normal doctor and 2 specialists...... neither don't know whats wrong cause my hearing tests came out flawless... which is good that my hearings fine...... but its REALLY annoying that no one knows why my ears are doing this.

And Sjoko2, could U post a pic of this ear plug U made with cigarette filters??? I just can't picture how to make it..... I'm quite interested.

And hears a question for ya, because U said U used earplugs all the time, is it possible to get a good mix with specialized ear plugs in(whether they are custom fit or cigarette filters :D ) Or did U eq things, mix it then put the plugs in for the rest of the show??

Because the more I can keep these in during live events and stuff like that, the better.

Thx,

Sabith
 
Sabith, contact the Audio Engineering Society, they have details of specialists who know about engineer / musician 'problems' and their treatments.
:D Believe it or not, I have never taken a picture of a filter split in 2 halves - not that difficult? Just try! Pull the filter of, pull the paper of the filter and split the ting in half!
I think part of my luck was that in those days The Who didn't bother putting a console out front. It was bass, drums, vocals, guitar - VERY loud. Console was stage left, behind the PA. No probs.
I don't do a lot of live stuff anymore, I always wear plugs if I go to a gig, and in my studio I don't really play stuff at a high volume, despite having over 2000 watts of monitor power. I'm carefull!
 
no friggin wonder you can't hear us
PUT SOME SILENCERS ON THAT BLASTED GUN!!!!

Oh - PS, just put the right one back in your pocket, its not shooting anything:rolleyes:
 
LOL....Already had this arguement sjoko2! :)

You have to look really close.

I have been on a kick lately about the exteme volume levels that many bands play at on stage. It is unreal. There is this funk/jazzy/sometimes a bit of rock band who I mixed a CD for about a year or so ago who I mix sometimes live. I get on their ass about how loud they play because it is rediculous for the type of music they play. They leave little room for the songs to grow dynamically speaking.

I have found that if I have to mix a show, and have to work in the studio the next day, I wear earplugs for the live show. It usually takes my ears a day to get back to hearing the little stuff in the studio after live mixing.

Some tricks I have learned about live mixing are:

Watch the 3-8KHz region on the PA. That is the shit that shreds your hearing really had.

Walk away for a bit.

Don't use cans to solo channels! What the hell, it don't sound anything close to the same anyway, and you have to deal with the whole sound, meaning the sound you hear without PA support, rather than the isolated sound.

Rub behind your ears and your jaw area a lot. Tinnitus is cause because the ligaments won't lossen back up. You can help that buy massaging that area to help keep them loose.

Musicians don't have the ability to do much of the above, so hearing protection is a must. Help us old live soundmen out though, and set your sound WITHOUT earplugs in. You will have the tendency to want to make everything overly bright if you set your sounds with them in, and that equals trouble for the soundman.

Drummers who play with earplugs in tend to hit their cymbals way too hard! This is problematic too.

I try to tell bands to let me create the volume for them. I have found that a mic'ed guitar cabinet actually sounds much better when the source sound is lower in volume. Argue all you want with this, but I have been on both sides of the stage, and still believe this to be true, and many bands that I have worked with live have come to trust my take on these things because they continue to hear good things from their fans about how they sound live. I work with some signed bands here and there live, and usually if I asked them to turn down and let the PA create the volume, they don't even hesitate to do so, possibly because it is something that has been asked by other soundmen, and they heard feedback from the listeners that they sounded great.

Bass players seem to have the hardest problem in a live setting, mainly because the physical size of the sound waves they play are really large. An 100Hz tone is around 32' long! So, a bass player is really hearing much of their low end from reflections off the walls. This means that they will have the tendency to turn up because sound volumes decrease over distance, and of course walls tend to absorb bass quite a bit. Solution? Have the drummer play quieter! :)

The person in the band that is going to have the hardest time playing quieter is the drummer. This is usually a result of them not having very good dynamic control. Tough shit I say! Learn to play at volumes that are appropriate to just about any room, and that usually starts with the practice room.

Most of you are playing some sort of popular music. 99.9% of you have a vocalist. 100% of the time, hearing the vocals is the most important thing to the listeners in the crowd. Yet, with this in mind, most musicians create a situation where it is very hard, if not impossible to get the vocalist loud enough to be heard well. That is problem, and will usually reflect in your bands success. Argue that all you want, but, my take is true! :)

Learn to turn down and play at volumes that are appropriate for very small rooms, and even keep that volume in bigger rooms and you will start to hear very good things about your live sound EVERYWHERE you play, not just that club with the million watt sound system.

In the process, you will be doing your ears a very big favor for sure!

End of rant.

Ed
 
Good advise Ed.
Screaming midrange is the most horrible culprit - Our main systems in the '70's were all 5 way crossover, which allowed for precise control. With massive W bins for the low end and directed short, medium, long and slanted horns, we didn't need to rely on hard mid to make things sound loud. The complexity and transport volume of these systems made them "not so commercially viable" and people started flying arrays which sounded like total shit, harmonic distortion extreme. The first array in the world to produce a decent sound is the new EV system.... and its still nowhere near a good seperated one.

I have found that stage volume has gone down a lot on average, thank goodness.
 
Yes, the MT series stuff is very pleasent sjoko2. I have had the opportunity to mix on a few of them and was smiling the whole time.

Are you sure that harmonic distortion wasn't from the Yamaha consoles? ;) About half my live mixing is done on a PM 3000, and while it beats the hell out of a Mackie, the 3K just doesn't have that great of a sound! Oh well......

I did get the opportunity to mix on a Crest Audio console pushing an EAW system. Not bad. Not as good as I thought it would be though....:(

:) I used to work for a sound company were the owner designed a 3 way box using the newer style JBL drivers (newer than 1982 that is). He called them Mohawks. He designed them to support Iggy Pop on a good part of their American tour way back when.

Man, those boxes sounded like shit! But man, were they ever loud!!!

Errrrrrrr...I know the average volume for big time acts HAS indeed come down quite a bit, but for the more local bands playing clubs it has seemed to increase over that last 5 years to saturating the room levels.

People have to understand that in smaller spaces you have a problem getting vocal mics above the band. You can only turn a vocal mic up so loud before feedback. Yes, you can eq out that feedback, but you are also compromising the sound QUALITY!!! I have an accute ability to EQ a room very well, and it really pisses me off to have to start doing cut eq on the FOH eq so I can crank the hell out of the vocal mic and not have feedback because the drummer feels the need to hit cymbals so hard that they break at least one a month. It sounds horrible. Also, let's not talk about the rather weak sounding mic pre's and lame console eq on the average club sound system.

Bands! Help your live sound in clubs! Turn down! Loud volumes create so many problems, and the sound that you would WANT to have is not getting to the people that are paying to see you play.

Ed
 
I never use Yamaha consoles, rason being - they are total complete and utter pieces of moronic distorted crap. Ehhh does that explain what I think of them?
I once had to take over a tour halfway with two of them. Mixed one gig, and had 2 AMEK recalls flown in. Everyone just about laid eggs when they heard the difference.
Clair bro was demonstrating the new digital Yamaha at Nashville a couple of weeks ago. We had to send a sync clock urgently to run the thing from, otherwise it just sounds to bad. 120.000 piece of crap.
 
hehehee my brain wasn't processing when I was thinking of the filter cut in half, I though U were talking about the little circle piece on the end...... hehe which is a tad small.

Well it's good to hear that I can mix with my specialized plugs in, because that will save my ears even more. I was just concerned that the slight freq differences they make would really screw a mix up :D

Thx again,

Sabith

PS, does the Audio Engineering Society have a website???
 
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