Bluetube earbuds (Raycon E25s) for tracking and on-camera vocals?

Hi, all.

Does anybody here use inexpensive Bluetooth earbuds for recording vocals and acoustic instrument tracks? Also, how about for singing in YouTube videos? I have zero experience with Bluetooth, but the Raycon E25s are 15% OFF, so I might give it a go.

Specific questions:

1. My DAW is PreSonus StudioOne4. How do I get a mix to play in Bluetooth earbuds rather than regular corded headphones?

2. Isolation: Will the E25 sound bleed into a vocal mic? I have good hearing, so the volume level should be pretty low.

3. Latency: Is there too much signal delay for this to work properly?

Thanks,
Tom
 
You should be able to configured your DAW to send output to the (computer) system audio, and then use its Bluetooth capability. I've never tried wireless earbuds, but sometimes have used regular ones, though they are the kind with soft tips that seal in the ear canal, so no bleed was noticeable.

The latency question came up in another thread. You just have to try on your setup and see, is my guess.
 
Thanks, Keith ==

I'll bet you're right about using the Windows audio system rather than my recording interface. Until you said that I couldn't imagine any way to send audio from DAW to Bluetooth transmitter > receiver.
Wondering if latency would be even worse that way... Can't test it until/unless I get the earbuds. I'll be checking HERE to see what the return policy looks like.

I've been looking online since posting here. Found THIS, but not sure if it's reliable info. Indicates that Bluetooth latency is a big problem, and insurmountable...

Next I'll search here on HomeRecording.com for the thread you mentioned regarding Bluetooth latency. Thanks.
 
It probably depends on the hardware involved. Folks use Apple AirPods with smartphones (usually Apple) and I don’t see any latency but you can assume they weren’t buying the lowest possible cost Bluetooth ASICs, unlike PC manufacturers. (It’s also possible that when they’re using the same BT device for both input/output the latency is managed somehow. Never tried it!)
 
It probably depends on the hardware involved. Folks use Apple AirPods with smartphones (usually Apple) and I don’t see any latency but you can assume they weren’t buying the lowest possible cost Bluetooth ASICs, unlike PC manufacturers. (It’s also possible that when they’re using the same BT device for both input/output the latency is managed somehow. Never tried it!)

Yes, 100 milliseconds (random number) of delay in a phone conversation is not even noticeable. But try recording a track with that much latency!
 
I gave up on wireless but you can try...

Here's a great article on latency of wired vs wireless headphones and the various wireless technologies of which there are several...none can match wired which still has latency...
 
Keith, mjbphotos and TAE ==

Thanks to you all. Based on your comments and on the general tone of my Google results, I'll have to forget about the Bluetooth ear buds.

FWIW, in the course of my research I found THIS SOUND-ON-SOUND ARTICLE on the subject of recording vocal tracks with no headphones at all. You guys might find it interesting/useful. I'm going to try it, at least for making YouTube song videos. :D
 
Keith, mjbphotos and TAE ==

Thanks to you all. Based on your comments and on the general tone of my Google results, I'll have to forget about the Bluetooth ear buds.

FWIW, in the course of my research I found THIS SOUND-ON-SOUND ARTICLE on the subject of recording vocal tracks with no headphones at all. You guys might find it interesting/useful. I'm going to try it, at least for making YouTube song videos. :D

Yes the sing in front of monitors approach does work for some people - but you really need to have the instrument mix close to its final form, so that any bleed is just the same sound, more volume. Otherwise you could be chasing down noises or a loud snare hit, etc forever.
 
...you really need to have the instrument mix close to its final form, so that any bleed is just the same sound, more volume...

Good point. I haven't found time to read the whole SOS article yet, but it looks like they too find a lot of potential problems with the method.

I'm thinking about creating a modified mix, like a headphone cue mix for individual session players. If I can get away with it, I'll leave out most percussion and dial back the bass (and as you mention, try to minimize anything else that might 'stick out'). Of course, that'll only work IF a singer (mostly me) can still put in a strong performance while listening to only part of the mix...

Thanks for your input, mjbphotos.
 
I'm not sure what you are doing, or why you were going with wireless in the first place, but when our son was here and we recorded a song together, he just played the guide track on his phone through his Airpods and I recorded him direct into the project, and worried about alignment afterwards, since it was just a 2-piece thing, and I was going to re-record my part to match his, anyway. If the recording matches the guide track, or click+arrangement, it doesn't actually have to be monitored (i.e., hearing yourself) in many cases.

I've recorded myself just singing and playing with no monitoring some times without a click. It seems to work. Of course, if you're not playing guitar at the same time, you do need to hear the music and yourself at the same time. I've used wired earbuds with the cord going down my back. It's not that noticeable.
 
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I'm going to try it, at least for making YouTube song videos. :D

This is just observation from my own experience trying to pull off the trickiest of tricky with my voicelive harmonizer..
Unlike the other 99.999999% of people that use a harmonizer I, always the one to try and push the envelope decided to use the harmonizer differently than designed. one mic for both straight vocals and harmonized vocals with the harmonies coming off and on by a foot switch...OH HELL NO...so I got a special holder that hold 2 mics and one goes to the mixer straight with a little verb and then the other goes to the harmonizer with the harmonizer on all the time... It was like learning to use a new instrument but the effect is REALLY cool being able to fade in and out with the harmonizer ...that and the fact that I can control the notes of the harmonies by what notes I play on the keyboard via midi...all well and good and as I got better with it...I'm thinking oh this is going to be sooooo cool live...all the time doing this experimenting always with headphones.....and then I tried it with the PA ....DAMN! NOPE! The Harmony mic always being on was picking up my vocal and the keyboards and made the whole thing sound like hell...The point of this long ass winded story is that if you try and record your vocal along with the music you are playing live it's going to double the sound ..it won't destroy the sound like with the harmonizer but the double artifact is going to be there..That's why studios have a separate room to monitor the recording and everybody in the recording room is wearing headphones...Though looking good and professional is all well and good ...the audio recording takes precedence IMO.... there are 1000's of videos out there by professionals performing live wearing headphones...no biggy it's far more about the actual song and the quality of the recording than how cool the performer looks... I'd not worry about wearing head phones and just get some recordings done and out there...This is my first one done strictly with a USB mixer into an iPhone...still armature hour but going forward I'll be repositioning the mic and putting up a different back drop and I'm going to put some damn performed live tunes out this year...I barely used the harmonizer in this one but you can hear it in there a few times...

Shameless self promotion :laughings:

 
I'm not sure what you are doing...

I'm not sure either. :D

You make a good point, Keith. The "cue mix" I hear when performing on video--as singer, guitarist, bassist, etc--need not be playing directly from my DAW. It can be any mix transferred to my phone, and heard via my iPhone corded earbuds (run up my back, as you suggest).

THANKS. I didn't think of it because I never use my phone for anything but phone calls and occasional SIRI-assisted driving navigation (or maybe I'm just not too bright). My iphone buds fall out of my ears a lot, and I can't load music onto my phone because I refuse to put all that Apple software on my computers. Not an Apple fan, but there are other options.

Sorry to confuse readers about what I'm attempting. Take the example of performing a song for a YouTube video. I don't like the look of headphones and studio gear in such videos. I think it's a mistake to show an audience the tangle of cables and general chaos involved in recording. They want "magic" and don't want to see "how the sausage is made."

I have an AGPtek MP3 player (the best $23 investment I ever made as a songwriter, ask me about it if you're curious) that accepts standard corded earbuds. It's tiny and weighs nothing. I think THAT would do for me, even better than the iPhone.

So Keith, is this the method you recommend?
1. Initiate video recording
2. Initiate audio recording in the DAW
3. Take my place in front of the camera and initiate playback from my MP3 player
4. Cued by the MP3 playback, sing into a mic that's sending audio signal to the DAW for recording
5. When recording is finished, stop the audio and video recording
6. In the DAW: Drag the newly recorded audio section into ALIGNMENT WITH THE REST OF THE AUDIO TRACKS in the song.

Having typed it all out, I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as there are no timing or pitch differences between the DAW audio and the MP3 Player audio. Being digital, I guess there wouldn't be... Sometimes I lapse into "Analog Think" from days gone by. :D
 
I'm not sure either. :D

You make a good point, Keith. The "cue mix" I hear when performing on video--as singer, guitarist, bassist, etc--need not be playing directly from my DAW. It can be any mix transferred to my phone, and heard via my iPhone corded earbuds (run up my back, as you suggest).

THANKS. I didn't think of it because I never use my phone for anything but phone calls and occasional SIRI-assisted driving navigation (or maybe I'm just not too bright). My iphone buds fall out of my ears a lot, and I can't load music onto my phone because I refuse to put all that Apple software on my computers. Not an Apple fan, but there are other options.

Sorry to confuse readers about what I'm attempting. Take the example of performing a song for a YouTube video. I don't like the look of headphones and studio gear in such videos. I think it's a mistake to show an audience the tangle of cables and general chaos involved in recording. They want "magic" and don't want to see "how the sausage is made."

I have an AGPtek MP3 player (the best $23 investment I ever made as a songwriter, ask me about it if you're curious) that accepts standard corded earbuds. It's tiny and weighs nothing. I think THAT would do for me, even better than the iPhone.

So Keith, is this the method you recommend?
1. Initiate video recording
2. Initiate audio recording in the DAW
3. Take my place in front of the camera and initiate playback from my MP3 player
4. Cued by the MP3 playback, sing into a mic that's sending audio signal to the DAW for recording
5. When recording is finished, stop the audio and video recording
6. In the DAW: Drag the newly recorded audio section into ALIGNMENT WITH THE REST OF THE AUDIO TRACKS in the song.

Having typed it all out, I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as there are no timing or pitch differences between the DAW audio and the MP3 Player audio. Being digital, I guess there wouldn't be... Sometimes I lapse into "Analog Think" from days gone by. :D
It should work, assuming you can keep pitch singing without hearing yourself in the mix you are monitoring. This may or may not be a problem for you (or others). I can say I have not done it, but saw our son do that (though he was playing violin).

When I've recorded with earbuds, it's mostly because I agree that the headphones can be distracting (ok, I look "dorky" enough without them). But, you may be overthinking that part, too. I have seen lots of videos in studio settings with folks wearing headphones, and it's obviously what they have to do for that kind of (really live) recording. That doesn't bother me, but it depends on what kind of video you're trying to produce. Last year I did a few remote collaborations so trying to keep the "just performing in front of a phone/webcam" look I started using some earbuds myself.

For alignment, you may have to experiment to keep that simple. I have an audible count-in on the backing track and sometimes that's audibly repeated by anyone making a new track, which usually gets edited out in the mix, but if you're not trying to align string sections or pads, it's usually obvious where things sound best.
 
This is just observation from my own experience trying to pull off the trickiest of tricky with my voicelive harmonizer...

...doing this experimenting always with headphones.....and then I tried it with the PA ....DAMN! NOPE! The Harmony mic always being on was picking up my vocal and the keyboards and made the whole thing sound like hell...

...if you try and record your vocal along with the music you are playing live it's going to double the sound ..it won't destroy the sound like with the harmonizer but the double artifact is going to be there...

I'd not worry about wearing head phones and just get some recordings done and out there...

TAE ==

Thanks a lot for the hands-on demonstration of the points you're making. I hear you, and may have to do as you suggest. But I'll try to find a way around it. Unfortunately, all sound is PHYSICS, and I've just never had any luck trying to bend Physics to my will... :D

Also, thanks for the video example. Cool vocal stylings and laid back piano, too. I'm watching your right hand, noting how you play two keys with your thumb. Gonna have to experiment with that.
 
TAE I'm watching your right hand, noting how you play two keys with your thumb. Gonna have to experiment with that.

Good catch! More of a jazzy playing type friend turned me onto to that trick ...we call it mashing.. Once he showed it to me and I started experimenting it opened a whole new way of playing that adds a ton of beautiful color to a chord.. I'll do the same with other fingers sometimes playing 7 even 8 notes with either hand...Fortunately or maybe unfortunately I have big ass hands and an exceptionally wide spread from tip of thumb to tip of little finger. I can span 11 white keys with ease.
 
It should work, assuming you can keep pitch singing without hearing yourself in the mix you are monitoring.

I can sing with just one headphone earpiece, though typically my voice is part of that mix. I like just one earpiece so I can (also) hear my voice in open air, but I'll have to experiment with open-air being the only voice I hear.

For alignment...I have an audible count-in on the backing track and sometimes that's audibly repeated by anyone making a new track, which usually gets edited out in the mix, but if you're not trying to align string sections or pads, it's usually obvious where things sound best.
Very helpful, Keith. StudioOne makes it simple to convert the Metronome into an audio track. I usually keep that click track as Track 1 of my project. I'll record that into the cue mix that I hear in my MP3 earbud feed, but the trick is getting that click count-in onto the vocal track I'm recording for video. I need the click on the new track so I can align that new track with the rest of the project. Hmm...maybe just hold the earbud against the microphone for a bar or two of a very long count-in(?) Hmmm.

Actually, maybe it'd be simpler and better to just run a long cord from my interface headphone out (or my little headphone cue mixer) to basic earbuds that run up my back. That way I'm hearing the actual, original click track, and the new recording is an integral track in the project. I could create any kind of cue mix I want, like you do for any session player.

I would have done that already but for the fact that my audio recording facilities and video set are at opposite ends of the house. :facepalm:
 
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Good catch! More of a jazzy playing type friend turned me onto to that trick ...we call it mashing.. Once he showed it to me and I started experimenting it opened a whole new way of playing that adds a ton of beautiful color to a chord.. I'll do the same with other fingers sometimes playing 7 even 8 notes with either hand...

Thanks for further insight.


Fortunately or maybe unfortunately I have big ass hands and an exceptionally wide spread from tip of thumb to tip of little finger. I can span 11 white keys with ease.

You must be popular with the ladies. :D :facepalm:

There was a Robin Williams standup joke: "The quarterback is a big man, with big hands and big feet. And ladies, you know what that means...big gloves and big shoes!"

:guitar: RockOn
 
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