Bit depth compatibility . . .

[JeffF]

Bit depth [edited] compatibility . . .

As of Christmas, I have 2 drum machines units, Beat Buddies. One model is 16-bit; the other is 24 bit. I also have two Tascam [edited: Portastudios]: the 8-track is 16 bit; the 24 track is 24 bit.

Of question, would I encounter any compatibility bit-[edited: depth] issues with the 16 & 24-bit drum machines used interchangeably with either [edited: Portastudio] with different recording bit-[edited: depth]?

[Edited several days after post: I should have referred to the Tascams as their Portastudio models. Even so, the replies did help me to know what to verify of compatibility with the Tascams, which was greatly appreciated.]

Thank you, JeffF.

 

[DM60]

I have to assume you are going to use your drum machine as an analog input. It should be treated just asany other analog piece of equipment.

 

[CoolCat]

I was asked something about the bit rates too the other day, but it was Bit Rate of the DAW and the bit rate of the Interface, and then I guess if you are using a digital input the bit rates of the drum machine or keybaords or whatever...?

does it help to have them all the same bit rate settings, is that what the question is?

Im curious too,..

 

[ashcat_lt]

#1 You're talking about Bit Depth. Bit Rate is a different thing altogether.

More importantly, though, the signal coming out of the drum machines is analog. There are no bits and therefore nothing to worry about. The bit depth listed is the internal sampling and/or processing, and might be an indication of the relative quality of the output, but that output is analog.

 

[DM60]

OP, could you tell us what drum machines you are using? That would help in understanding the question better for all of us.

 

[Farview]

#1 You're talking about Bit Depth. Bit Rate is a different thing altogether.

More importantly, though, the signal coming out of the drum machines is analog. There are no bits and therefore nothing to worry about. The bit depth listed is the internal sampling and/or processing, and might be an indication of the relative quality of the output, but that output is analog.

This is all you need to know.

 

[mixsit]

Question in between. Does that really matter?
I have a seperate usb interface next to my main one off which i don't even know or bothered about the bit depth, thinking that the DAW works on 36 bit floating and can handle anything lower. The same with importing lower rate tracks.
Or will this be a hardware problem with synchronizing or so?

Any modern I/F is likely 24 bit, no reason not to use it even if they have a 16 bit option..
The general answer though is when you import a 16 bit file into a 24 bit project it adds the extra 8 empty bits -with no additional noise penalty, below previous 16 bits. Then the DAW continues doing it's thing processing in 32 bit float.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Bit DEPTH is interchangeable. You can combine a 4 bit file with a 32 bit file and they'll be fine. Won't make the 4 bit one sound any better, but it also won't make the 32 bit sound worse and the DAW will have no problem mixing them together the way you'd expect. If your DAW does have a problem or won't let you do this, you should find another DAW.

SAMPLE Rate is a somewhat different matter. If you have a 44.1K .wav and try to mix it with a 48K .wav, you can't really just line them up sample for sample because that will change the speed and pitch of one or the other. One or both needs to be converted first. I think most real DAWs are up to speed on automatic sample rate conversion, but again if yours doesn't just figure it out and do it...

BIT RATE is for compressed formats like MP3, and has nothing to do with your audio interface or project settings. OP was talking about Bit Depth, as I mentioned above.

 

[JeffF]

Thanks Ashcat. You helped me reframe my concern, in regard to possible distortion in combining different sampling rates. Although I will not be using DAW, I see that I should have asked whether different sampling rates recorded would cause speed/pitch issues when creating a .WAV file with the Tascam recorders.

To avoid any issue at the end of a project, I'll match the drum machine units with the respective Tascam recorders of the same sampling rate--not sure if the Tascam units can compensate for different sample rates recorded. (One of the drum machines is more difficult for me in making transitions, but should be manageable with a lot of practice.)

Now, that I know what to ask, maybe the Tascam forum would have insight on above correctly stated concern, just in the event I cannot acquire management of one of the drum machines.

Edited content: I sent an email to Tascam asking about any issues, specifically speed/pitch, using inputs of differing sampling rates--I'll update forum once of reply.

Thanks to all for insights. Appreciatively, JeffF.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Now wait a minute. You're still making analog connections, no? Plugging the audio output from the drum machine into the input on the recorder? Then it still doesn't matter. Bit depth, sampling rate, none of it. Again, those things might have something to do with the quality of sound that comes out of the drum machine, but once it's analog, they don't exist anymore. There are no samples, only analog signal. It'll work fine and you don't have to worry about "matching" anything.

 

[Steenamaroo]

All the time i import 44.1 rate next to 48 and even higher rates without any pitch change. I even exchange them between seperate sessions.
Again you can hang on to "impossible", but i import all kinds off tracks in a high rate session in my DAW were all pitch remains what it was. I really don't get it.

Sounds like your daw is resampling on import, which it should.
I find it hard to believe any daw wouldn't these days (Jimmy! ), but apparently some don't.

 

[Farview]

Sounds like your daw is resampling on import, which it should.
I find it hard to believe any daw wouldn't these days (Jimmy! ), but apparently some don't.

I think they all will, unless you tell them not to. (or vice versa)

 

[ashcat_lt]

I could try to explain it, but I'd just be posting the same fucking thing I posted above, which does not say anything about "impossible".

 

[ashcat_lt]

First of all you're confusing this with that other thread that got locked because you can't figure out what I'm talking about.

In THIS thread, I was explaining that files of different Sample Rates need to be converted to match in order to play back correctly. Your DAW does that automagically. Great. Mine does too. That's a relatively new thing. Older DAWs either wouldn't even let you do it, or they'd just line up the samples naively which would fuck up the timing and pitch. Apparently some video editing software still doesn't really do it correctly.

NONE of this actually applies to the OP. They got their answer in DM60's first reply. CoolCat added some irrelevancies, and then I agreed with DM60. Thread closed. The rest has been trying to clarify some questions that don't have anything to do with plugging a drum machine into digital portastudio.

 

[miroslav]

Sounds like your daw is resampling on import, which it should.
I find it hard to believe any daw wouldn't these days (Jimmy! ), but apparently some don't.

My DAW (Samplitude) always asks when it sees incompatibilities with an attempted import...which it should, because it can't know what I want without offering the options.

It is possible that with some DAWs, some folks have simply turned off the pop-up options. IOW...at some point you tell that DAW always do "THIS"...and then you no longer see the options...??? If so, there is usually a way to reset the pop-ups so you see them again.

So...WRT to importing a different sample rate file into a project...yes, if I tell it NOT to resample, the pitch would be off (like if you had recorded two tracks for the same song using different rates)...so in most cases, I always would tell it to resample, but I never shut off the pop-up options. I prefer to have that moment to consider what the DAW is going to do rather than have it be automatic behind the scenes.

I get similar options when messing with MIDI files...like if swap them out and things don't match up, the DAW gives my options on how it can handle the imports.

 

[ashcat_lt]

It is possible that with some DAWs, some folks have simply turned off the pop-up options.

Reaper never asks and in fact there's no way to tell it NOT to resample on import. This actually makes it kind of tough to even show what I'm trying to describe, but it doesn't much matter. It does flag audio items which have been resampled from a Sample Rate that is different from the Project/Interface settings.

And in that other topic i was right too.

No, in the other thread you were flat wrong and refused to admit your ignorance and learn from the knowledge and experience of people who have done a whole lot more of this than you.

 

[ashcat_lt]

I understand what I'm talking about, and I feel like I've described it pretty clearly. Other people get it. You don't. Not my problem until you identify specific points that don't make sense to you. I'd like to help you understand, but at this point I'm at a loss. I can repeat myself. Maybe I'll whip up some pictures.

I also understand what you're talking about. In fact, I'm pretty sure I understand it better than you because you just rely on your DAW to do the thinking by for you.

In THIS thread, I was trying to clear up some ambiguity about Bit Depth vs Sample Rate vs Bit Rate. It is absolutely true that you can't digitally mix recordings taken at different sample rates without conversion and expect it to work correctly. It's a fundamental fact that other people in this thread seemed to be asking about.

 

[miroslav]

Reaper never asks and in fact there's no way to tell it NOT to resample on import.

I think there is a major difference in what I can do with my DAW (Samplitude, I'm sure others can do this too)...and what you're experiencing in Reaper.

Like I said...in Samplitude, you are given the option to resample. When you accept that, Samplitude actually *creates* a new file at whatever project sample rate you are importing into, but it leaves the original file w/original sample rate.
What you get in Reaper, as it's my understanding, is not a file resample and import, but an on-the-fly, active resampling when you hit playback that is always going on, every time you hit playback.
So...imagine you have a dozen files imported with a variety of sample rates...Reaper is just actively resampling them all, at their various sample rates, all the time.
In order to have those files actually be at whatever sample rate your project is...you have to first bounce them out at that desired rate.
With Samplitude, I get that all done during file import.

Maybe that seems like the same thing...but it's not, and personally, I would avoid constant resampling on-the-fly...since it's just that much more work for the DAW to be doing while it's also trying to run FX and processing in real time.
If I was working in Reaper, I would choose to bounce them out at the project sample rate and create new files. I'm not sure if you guys get the option to allow (or not) for the pitch to change when doing bounces...?
Like I said...in Samplitude, all those options are available to me on file import.

 

[mixsit]

Bit DEPTH is interchangeable. ..[snip]
SAMPLE Rate is a somewhat different matter. [snip]

BIT RATE is for compressed formats like MP3, and has nothing to do with your audio interface or project settings. OP was talking about Bit Depth, as I mentioned above.

This. The term Bit Rate shouldn't even have been repeated and used again in this discussion re PCM audio by folks who know better.
In fact, it would be even cooler if the OP would edit to show the correction and a mod would fix (amend) the title. Lest we continue the spread of this... doo doo

 

[jimmys69]

Sounds like your daw is resampling on import, which it should.
I find it hard to believe any daw wouldn't these days (Jimmy! ), but apparently some don't.

Haha! But it does. I think it depends on how it is imported.

I recently found that drag/drop doesn't always work as it should. 'Import file' however does bring up the conversion rate every time. May be a Cubase bug.

So much for user friendly shit....

Happy New Year! You still didn't give me a bar to send you a Christmas tab to...