being a free producer for experience

U

ultrasound

New member
hey i have this ideas maybe you folks can tell me if its a good one or not.

ive been recording and producing music of my own for some time but now i want to try and record a band of other musicians to practice and get experience being a music producer. i was thinking of advertising myself on gumtree saying "free producer available" or "im looking for a band to record" and seeing who responds.

i dont really have a studio so i would have to be mobile for example recording drums in one place and then guitar in another.

what do you reckon?
 
I get it if you don't have much experience or gear. However, it can be a tricky thing. I have heard the advice many times that, if you don't think your worth spending money on, then no one will think you are worth spending money on. You have to be proud enough of your work that you think you are worth being paid for.

Now I understand that you might not be there. Just be careful, because it is a thin line between being used and just not being good enough to be paid for.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Especially seeing as you don't have a studio to record in, asking for money may not be fair.

There's no harm in putting up the advert and seeing what comes your way :)
 
I think hanging around the clubs and finding bands who are interested is a good way to get your foot in the door. I would think going from recording engineer to producer is the logical path.

Identifying the right band is probably the tricky part.
 
I'd advise against. Do some recording as a favor for friends, with the understanding that you can distribute the recordings, or at least samples, to prospective clients. Even among friends, the tendency is to assign no value to the time of someone who is donating it.

The guy who refuses to change his caved-in snare head, refuses the offer of a good loaner, but then changes all the other heads in between sessions. With Pinstripes.

Twenty hours spent trying to get the perfect guitar tracks for a four song demo.

The bands that will not permit any sort of reconfiguration for sonic purposes.

The guy you can't leave anywhere near a mike stand, because he absolutely has to dance around while playing to "get the right headspace."

Stopping in the middle of songs to re-write them.

Adding eighteen tracks of ornamentation to a punkish three-piece.

"Are you done mixing that live gig from last night? Why, yes, I do know it's now 4pm, and it's a weekday, but what could take so long?"

"You mind if I sit in while you mix, so I can insist that you EQ and effect every track as though it were to be played solo, and become sullen if you don't, or blame you/your gear when it comes out as a muddled Qdoba fart of colliding frequencies?"

Those are all from my own experiences, with friends. Before you subject yourself to the jackassery of strangers, I cannot recommend heartily enough that you be on the clock, to lend a sense of credibility to yourself, and to impose at least a shadow of credibility on the sessions.
 
ermghoti said:
I'd advise against. Do some recording as a favor for friends, with the understanding that you can distribute the recordings, or at least samples, to prospective clients. Even among friends, the tendency is to assign no value to the time of someone who is donating it.

The guy who refuses to change his caved-in snare head, refuses the offer of a good loaner, but then changes all the other heads in between sessions. With Pinstripes.

Twenty hours spent trying to get the perfect guitar tracks for a four song demo.

The bands that will not permit any sort of reconfiguration for sonic purposes.

The guy you can't leave anywhere near a mike stand, because he absolutely has to dance around while playing to "get the right headspace."

Stopping in the middle of songs to re-write them.

Adding eighteen tracks of ornamentation to a punkish three-piece.

"Are you done mixing that live gig from last night? Why, yes, I do know it's now 4pm, and it's a weekday, but what could take so long?"

"You mind if I sit in while you mix, so I can insist that you EQ and effect every track as though it were to be played solo, and become sullen if you don't, or blame you/your gear when it comes out as a muddled Qdoba fart of colliding frequencies?"

Those are all from my own experiences, with friends. Before you subject yourself to the jackassery of strangers, I cannot recommend heartily enough that you be on the clock, to lend a sense of credibility to yourself, and to impose at least a shadow of credibility on the sessions.
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I love this post, and applies to most service professionals.

But I do agree, charge something. Maybe find out what's the average rate in your area and pick something on the low end. They'll expect that for the money they're not going to get the best (or at least they should). But generally something for free means for some reason they should take the most advantage of you, and since they paid $0.00 it's worth $0.00.
 
I would recommend finding some local youngsters or a singer songwriter to record. Learning your skills by producing free is a great way to learn. You should discuss what's going to happen to the recordings with the artists first and maybe sign an agreement you can type out.

Often, recording females works well. They often are mush less competitive than guys and just want to concentrate on the performance.
 
tailored suit said:
I would recommend finding some local youngsters or a singer songwriter to record. Learning your skills by producing free is a great way to learn. You should discuss what's going to happen to the recordings with the artists first and maybe sign an agreement you can type out.

Often, recording females works well. They often are mush less competitive than guys and just want to concentrate on the performance.
Click to expand...

I would like to add, but make them pay a little bit.. Even if its really near nothing, and you make it seem like you are being extra kind to charge low price to record them. I'm sure you are more than competent enough to give out a good result. And as been mentioned multiple times, you really don't want to do it for free.
 
I've had good and bad experiences recording people for free.

I find that if more than 2 people are in the band, free recordings suck. There is always someone who doesn't show or they call you at the last minute to reschedule. If it's just one person, you can get some good people who really appreciate what you are doing and are willing to work with you a bit.

But be picky about who you record. Don't just take the first guy who says he's willing to let you record. You are doing him a favor, not the other way around. Also, I would strongly suggest not doing more than one song unless they are a singer/songwriter who can pound through 5 songs in a half hour.

Another option is to just look around and find tracks that have already been recorded. That will give you mixing practice and you don't have to involve anyone else.
 
I have to chime in on this one;

I remember when I was getting started I met a few lads who'd started a band and were looking for a record, so I agreed to give them a good ep for a set price. I met them a few times before hand (was only working with two of the 99% of the time) and the deal was struck. Price agreed, schedule laid out, a wee chat to get them all into the headspace for recording. Over all it was quite a fun endeavour until about the second week and 500th rework of a song. I started to get irked and rightly so I'd felt. I was working well past the agreements to try accommodate. Long story short it escalated to the point that I needed to call the gardaí to get them away from the house. The sole issue was just one of the guys, the guy who actually done the least work on the songs became arrogant obnoxious and threatening.

I learned my lesson and now have a preliminary chat before every session to get to know the players and have much stricter guidelines on when I say no. I have a stricter pay-scheme and don't accept part payment in 'other goods' that I had done before.
 
I have a little short story about this.

I have been involved in countless recordings since the early 90's. Some for myself, some for others in various studios. When the costs of gear came down enough for me to afford putting together a home project studio, I offered a free 3 song demo to guys that I had produced an album for years earlier. I knew they were really good and I could actually have decent musicians to test out my new stuff. Since then, they returned to record a full (paid) release, and are coming back this spring to do another, even though a high end studio showed interest in giving them a deal. They told them to FO because they have trust in their 6th member (me). Sometimes you have to dangle a carrot. They actually told me I was like a crack dealer-'give us a taste of the shit, now we are addicted'. lol

As long as you have something to give to a band/recording, then your time is worth something. Be careful whom you do the free time for. You want to start a good reputation by putting out good, or better-great product. That will only happen with musicians that are capable of doing that.


Best to ya man. :)
 
I might be reiterating some things that have been said but here's my take.

If it's not for some good friends who have mutual trust in the situation, most people will treat you like garbage if it's an unpaid situation.

However, you have to have something to prove to them that you have some skills to pay for. That's why I think it's a must to either record a few tracks for friends first, or at least have a collection of mixoff type tracks that you've mixed (where you could show the raw mixdown compared to a mixed version).

Even with friends, one major thing that people don't consider sometimes is the investment the band is putting in time-wise. I recorded a 6 song EP for my good buddies, and that sucker took a whole summer of Saturdays. I'm sure I put in a good 200 hours on it all told, but they put in at least half that with all the tracking sessions. I did it all for free, and even paid for some new things I needed to do the job because I wanted to record and mix a project. But man, they sacrificed a lot of time for that. Sure, they ended up with a bad ass CD (in my humble opinion :-)), but it came at a big cost to them. Your average joe is gonna piss all over that.
 
Just occurred to me: rather than offering to do a given job for free, offer a set amount of time. Two days, a week, twenty hours, whatever. That way, even if you aren't comfortable demanding payment for whatever reason, you will still be able to impose a sense of economics on the session. I'll try that the next time I'm doing a job for somebody as a favor.
 
My advice. don't.
You want to do...cut your chops as an intern somewhere. see how others do it first….

then the two paths (pick one):


Producer as the "+1 in the band": You are the band's mix guy dude. every show, everything. This is a type of business partnership. Your the "Executive Producer", not hired type. You were not payed per session to produce - You are the mix artist. You rely on collection of rights on recording copyright but not the song copyright.

Producer as "the professional": You own or a partner of a record company and you audition bands for potential new sales. The bands sent in demos and wants to "Be signed" to the record label. The company pays you, and the studio staff a salary as an employee. The record company gets all publishing rights, but some will pay producers a bonus "for top 10 chart" or "$x amount in sales" depending on the arrangement.
 
in this business willing to do for free & putting out a free ad tells people you have zero experience.
IF you do get someone to bite then word gets around that you work free or very cheap.
that tends to bite you in the end.
 
The dynamic of doing something for free and doing something for even as little as $10 is drastically different.

I would rather be paid $10 than do it for free even in the beginning. I did my younger brothers band for free when I first started though for free and it wasn't a negative experience by any means. I did get out of the free mindset pretty quickly after that though because you literally get treated different once money changes hands, even if it's just a small amount.
 
The trouble with the music industry is it is full of FREE.

Bands play for free to get a gig, sometimes even paying to play.
People do PA's and mix for free to try to get a foothold in the business, until they ask for money then the next free guy gets the job,
People set up studios, buying all the gear and record acts for free to get experience.

The outcome, well everyone in the public expect the bands to do things for free, cos you do it for fun don't you? Then all the other people in the music industry that are trying to make a living (and make the music industry a career) can't get any work because the guy down the road is doing it for FREE!

Always charge something and make it a legitimate business, the only way to get respect.

Alan.
 
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