Based on Feedback - Got 2 Mics to Remove Background Noise - feedback Required

CatMalone

New member
Hello :)

Based on the feedback I got from respected members of this forum I ordered dynamic mic(s) to eliminate the background noise because all the other options (whichever was possible at my end) I already tried and getting mic was the only fix.

I've a home studio setup where I create educational video course and currently using MXL 770 with Scarlett solo 2nd gen.

FYI: So far I got SM57
and SM58 is in transit and I will try both of them whichever works best to eliminate the background noise I'll keep that and return the other one.

I did 1 Minute demo recording at 3:30am:

Note: Fan and Ac was off and only, some noise was coming from outside...

First test:
Scarlett solo 2nd gen: Gain 75%
MXL 770 - It picked up a lot of noise
Recording Dropbox - 75%_gain_MXL-770.mp3 - Simplify your life



Second test:
Scarlett solo 2nd gen: Gain 79%
SM57 - I recorded noise for first 30 seconds then spoken something for 1 minute.

Recording: Dropbox - 79%_gain_SM57.mp3 - Simplify your life

1. Request - I request you please listen to the recording and check whether the background noise is completely removed or not as I don't have monitor headset.

2. I listen to the recording, even though gain was 79% but still volume is low. I guess If I increase more gain than mic will pick up noise and audio interface may also generate some noise isn't? So whats the solution for it? Should I use Audition/Audacity to increase the gain (using Compressor or Amplify effect) but I guess that will also increases underlying background noise (if it is in the recording)?

Please forgive me, I'm afraid, after listening to SM57 it sounds like it-isn't have rich and warm sound like MXL 770. It sounds somewhat flat but I'm grateful I got this.
 
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Please don't cross post.

Both sites are different and I had a situation where I was stuck and had a question in mind and looking for opinion from different people so I did that (and it's a wise thing to ask for help rather doing something on your own with limited knowledge) and there is nothing wrong in that. I'm grateful to you :) for replying but If you are member of two sites then you can reply at one site and ignore the other one but please do say: 'don't post', I didn't break any rules. I'm in a fix and need an advise from veterans members.

Different people (members) have different experience so it's right thing to ask them instead of keep spending money lol as I made this mistake earlier during setup.

I'm sure you'd be agree with my explanation :)

Thank you.
 
Sorry, there was a rash of cross posting on this forum, four identical posts in different categories. And they were all the wrong categories. So I was sort of on a hair trigger.
 
Hi Cat,

There are a few things I'd like to point out, or confirm.
It's completely normal that a dynamic microphone requires more gain than your MXL microphone. It's just the mechanics of how they work.

There will always be some amount of audible background noise in any recording.
Whether it's wind/traffic/computer fans, or the internal self-noise of the equipment. The idea of 100% eliminating background noise is pretty much impossible so aim for an acceptable level of background noise.

What is really important is the ratio, or gap, between background noise and the signal - The signal to noise ratio.
If you can listen to recorded voice without hearing, or being distracted by, background noise, then you're there. Job done. :)

For MXL vs SM57; You may already know but sm57 (or any dynamic) doesn't just magic away background noise.
The deal is that that type of microphone is less sensitive than the MXL and, therefore, it's easier to get very close to it without having to worry about (much) about plosives/air blasts from your speech.

The closer you are to a microphone, any microphone, the louder you are relative to the background noise in the room, just like speaking very close to someone's ear in a loud venue.
That's why a dynamic mic is often recommended for less-than-ideal acoustic environments.

If you were to sit 8"+ away from it then any potential advantage is lost and you may as well just use the MXL.


You're absolutely correct in saying that applying gain in your recording suite will raise background noise but that doesn't really matter as long as the speaking voice is well above the noise level.

Hope that's helpful. :)
 
Take a look on youtube for videos on how to use a "gate" . All DAW's have some sort available. The dynamic mic can be put closer to the speaking person giving a proximity effect which will make the sound more present
 
Sorry, there was a rash of cross posting on this forum, four identical posts in different categories. And they were all the wrong categories. So I was sort of on a hair trigger.

No worries :)
It happens sometimes, I understand that.
Someone might be posting multiple times...
 
Hi Cat.

Listening to the latest file, it is worlds better than the original samples you posted a few weeks back. Is the latest file a raw audio file or did you process it through Audacity's noise reduction?

It sounds like you're pretty close to the mic as there were a couple of plosives in the sample, but your signal still not too strong. I think you can go higher with the gain. Until you start getting overloading, take the gain up. Remember, the gain will have no effect on the relative level between your signal and the ambient noise. As they say, it raises all boats equally. The other option is to normalize the signal after its recorded. You can then see the noise in the quiet areas.

You might be able to further reduce the ambient noise with a change in microphone direction. One way you can test this is to record just background noise and rotate the microphone through the full 360 degrees. Maybe rotate it about 45 degrees and then make a note of how much background noise it picks up. Rotate, say a number, then rotate again. You should get 8 different directions thay way. If your room has no acoustic treatment, you probably won't notice a difference. If you have some reasonably good treatment to reduce reflections, then you may hear some improvement.

I'm not hearing any serious noise from the mic or interface, everything I hear is ambient room noise which still appears to be about -40dB relative to the max signal level..

You're final step may be to go with a noise gate. That should give you silence when you aren't talking. At the current level, it sounds like the noise is somewhat masked by your voice. Not knowing the final requirements, I can't say if this is acceptable or not. If you're doing audiobooks, then you really should have an absolutely quiet room. If you're doing Youtube videos, you can probably tolerate the noise.
 
Hi Cat,

What is really important is the ratio, or gap, between background noise and the signal - The signal to noise ratio.
If you can listen to recorded voice without hearing, or being distracted by, background noise, then you're there. Job done. :)

It completely makes sense to me and I noted down in my notes, you always guide me in a right direction. The irony is I've multimedia headset and in those every recording sounds great unless I specifically listen to the recording portion where I stay silent and record the noise and in order to listen to that I have to increase volume to 100% which usually blasts my ear otherwise I can't listen to the noise. I considered to get monitor headset but they cost a lot (multiple times the price it's available in US) that's why I'm dependent on members to give me the feedback.

BTW I'm not doing this for Youtube videos (where this much quality isn't even required), I'm recording this to create video course which requires good quality of audio. Now I already spent a few grands on the whole setup so I'm having to figure out a solution in other ways. It seems like I already reached to the conclusion.


>For MXL vs SM57; You may already know but sm57 (or any dynamic) doesn't just magic away background noise.
The deal is that that type of microphone is less sensitive than the MXL and, therefore, it's easier to get very close to it without having to worry about (much) about plosives/air blasts from your speech.

Yeah I know that but there is a weird and a surprising thing:
Weird things SM57 picks up a lot of plosives even though I use a pop filter and also tied up again, a handkerchief on the grill of mic and now speaking from 2" away but it still picks up 1 or 2 plosives (a sound engineer on youtube also said this SM57 picks up plosive but SM58 don't due to grill(which has wind shield).


You're absolutely correct in saying that applying gain in your recording suite will raise background noise but that doesn't really matter as long as the speaking voice is well above the noise level.

Surprising thing: As you and other member suggested so Now I increased the gain while recording with SM57, I set the gain to 100%, now the signal sounds good (at least to my ears). But the issue is this::: The recording which I did with MXL 770 with 75% gain: The level of noise it picks up, almost the same level of noise which is being picked up by SM57 with a gain of 100%

Video (screencast): see the Audio Levels in these video:

MXL770: Dropbox - 75%__gain-MXL-770.mp4 - Simplify your life

SM57: Dropbox - 100%_gain_SM57.mp4 - Simplify your life


Audio Files
In case if you're interested to have a look at Audio Files, here's that:
MXL770 Dropbox - 75%_gain_MXL-770.mp3 - Simplify your life

SM57: Dropbox - 100%_gain_SM57.mp3 - Simplify your life


I knew it before buying that dynamic mic don't require phantom power and needs more gain but the funny :) thing happens to me is:
Even after getting SM57 (a dynamic mic) it picks up almost same level of noise (as I had to increase the gain to 100%) just like my condenser mic MXL770 (when you watch the video please look at the sound meter)


Q) Now I'm wondering what's the point of buying SM57 ?

It looks like the place from where I started I came back to it again :) lol

Update
SM58 has arrived and good news is it picks up less noise than SM57 (even though both have the same element, may be just because of in built pop filter and it has ball grill). The other thing is it doesn't sound exceptionally good even though SM stands for Studio Microphone, it sounds like somewhat rough, muffled, nasal sound, May be I'm not feeling well that's why. Please have a look at the recording:

SM58: Dropbox - 99%_gain_SM58.mp3 - Simplify your life

All 3 recordings are just 1 min long.
 
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Yes, the 58 would handle close-proximity voice work better than the 57, with its built in windscreen.
The 57 is, for all intents, the same microphone but without that metal+foam grill.

I know you're on a mission to totally eliminate background noise but....

every recording sounds great unless I specifically listen to the recording portion where I stay silent and record the noise

Run with this ^.

Sure, it's good to take measures to minimise background noise, as you have done, but minimise is the word : It's always going to be there...It's just a question of whether or not it's noticeable.

Listening to your clips I can clearly hear room ambience in the MXL clip; Presumably you're a little farther from the mic, there.
This isn't the case with the shure clips so they've paid for themselves. ;)

The 57+58 sound just fine to me and the background noise is low enough that it's not posing a problem.
 
Hi Cat.

Listening to the latest file, it is worlds better than the original samples you posted a few weeks back. Is the latest file a raw audio file or did you process it through Audacity's noise reduction?

Are talking about MXL770 if so then it's raw audio. It's recorded exactly the same way the way I did a few weeks back.



>It sounds like you're pretty close to the mic as there were a couple of plosives in the sample, but your signal still not too strong. I think you can go higher with the gain. Until you start getting overloading, take the gain up. Remember, the gain will have no effect on the relative level between your signal and the ambient noise. As they say, it raises all boats equally.


As you and other member suggested so Now I increased the gain while recording with SM57, I set the gain to 100%, now the signal sounds good (at least to my ears). But the issue is this::: The recording which I did with MXL 770 with 75% gain: The level of noise it picks up, almost the same level of noise which is being picked up by SM57 with a gain of 100%

Video (screencast): see the Audio Levels in these video:

MXL770: Dropbox - 75%__gain-MXL-770.mp4 - Simplify your life

SM57: Dropbox - 100%_gain_SM57.mp4 - Simplify your life


Audio Files
In case if you're interested to have a look at Audio Files, here's that:
MXL770 Dropbox - 75%_gain_MXL-770.mp3 - Simplify your life

SM57: Dropbox - 100%_gain_SM57.mp3 - Simplify your life



Q) Now I'm wondering what's the point of buying SM57 ?

It looks like the place from where I started I came back to it again lol :)

>>You might be able to further reduce the ambient noise with a change in microphone direction. One way you can test this is to record just background noise and rotate the microphone through the full 360 degrees. Maybe rotate it about 45 degrees and then make a note of how much background noise it picks up. Rotate, say a number, then rotate again. You should get 8 different directions thay way. If your room has no acoustic treatment, you probably won't notice a difference. If you have some reasonably good treatment to reduce reflections, then you may hear some improvement.

It slightly reduced the noise so I'm using that position at the moment :) thanks



>I'm not hearing any serious noise from the mic or interface, everything I hear is ambient room noise which still appears to be about -40dB relative to the max signal level..
You're final step may be to go with a noise gate. That should give you silence when you aren't talking. At the current level, it sounds like the noise is somewhat masked by your voice.

I'd use the Noise gate, I'm trying to learn it, it seems like earlier audacity has a external plugin and now a days it's shipped with audacity.



>Not knowing the final requirements, I can't say if this is acceptable or not. If you're doing audiobooks, then you really should have an absolutely quiet room. If you're doing Youtube videos, you can probably tolerate the noise.


I gladly share it with you, I don't have to create youtube videos. I'm working professionally to create a educational video course in my stream which I submit to my publisher. It requires sound quality near to audiobooks but little less quality would be acceptable as well. Just like: when a few weeks back when I posted a sample file recorded with MXL770 and used audacity noise reduction effect on it, it's acceptable to my publisher unless it create any artifacts.

Update
BTW SM58 has also arrived and good news is it picks up less noise than SM57. The other thing is it doesn't sound exceptionally good even though SM stands for Studio Microphone, it sounds like somewhat rough, muffled, nasal sound, May be I'm not feeling well that's why. Please have a look at the recording:

SM58: Dropbox - 99%_gain_SM58.mp3 - Simplify your life

All 3 recordings are just 1 min long. Please let me know your thoughts :)
 
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Hi, Cat
The main problem is your very quiet voice. In the last recording it's louder, then the signal/noise ratio is better. The noise is not from electronics, but it's really acoustical noise in your room.
The first thing to do, then, is to minimizing it. Where does it come from? Only you can answer this question! Listen to the noise carefully. You have to attenuate it or to make anything so that s/n is better.
 
Hey Cat,

I spent some time trying some different approaches to your background noise dilemma. I played with some noise gates, limiters, EQ, etc and I think the best solution turns out to be using a noise reduction plugin.

Using your SM57 79% gain sample, I pulled it into Reaper, normalized to 0dB and then used the ReaFIR plugin set for noise subtraction. FFT sample size was standard 4096 and I sampled about 3 seconds of noise. This was the resulting file. There's no EQ or compression, just the normalization to bring up the volume, then noise reduction. There seems to me to be very little degradation to the vocal quality, and no pumping artifacts that seemed to plague most of the noise gates I tried.

View attachment CatMalone SM57 Norm + ReaFIR NR.mp3

Does this get close to your goal?
 
Yes, the 58 would handle close-proximity voice work better than the 57, with its built in windscreen.
The 57 is, for all intents, the same microphone but without that metal+foam grill.

I know you're on a mission to totally eliminate background noise but....

"Quote Originally Posted by CatMalone View Post
every recording sounds great unless I specifically listen to the recording portion where I stay silent and record the noise
"

Run with this ^.

Sure, it's good to take measures to minimise background noise, as you have done, but minimise is the word : It's always going to be there...It's just a question of whether or not it's noticeable.

Listening to your clips I can clearly hear room ambience in the MXL clip; Presumably you're a little farther from the mic, there.
This isn't the case with the shure clips so they've paid for themselves. ;)

The 57+58 sound just fine to me and the background noise is low enough that it's not posing a problem.

Sir, I can't tell you in words how much I've respect for you (as I always try my best to follow your advise - you may not believe this...) and all the other members who replies to my post (I noted down a few usernames (those who genuinely trying to help me) as I've some future plans can't say much about it now...)

My mission is only :) to finish my video course with my publisher and continue moving on but you may don't know what kind of limitations I had or having to face.

Still the day (3 days ago) when I got your reply I immediately acted on (then and there) what you Emphasized on your last reply and overnight did the recording and based on the rule which you taught me: I listened to the recordings and whichever sounds so good to me I submitted with my published.

He rejected that by saying Try again and you don't need fancy gear or equipment just try again with your existing gear and you'll be successful.

The very same day I moved to a new place in this hope I may get quite place but that place also had some issue but as I was committed so I did the recording in every room or corner wherever I found more silence and came up with 5+ recording samples and submitted to my publisher (usually I'm suppose :) to submit only 1 sample to publisher) and waiting for his response.

That is one of the reason I first post here to get feedback from members...
By posting here (is so much helpful to get feedback when nobody is around you knowing what you're talking about) and by trying different recording ways myself, by doing all this: my purpose is to get the most out of what I already got or invested in because a few people told me be resourceful and you will be successful.

(BTW I'll post once I get response from my publisher)
 
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Hey Cat,

I spent some time trying some different approaches to your background noise dilemma. I played with some noise gates, limiters, EQ, etc and I think the best solution turns out to be using a noise reduction plugin.

Using your SM57 79% gain sample, I pulled it into Reaper, normalized to 0dB and then used the ReaFIR plugin set for noise subtraction. FFT sample size was standard 4096 and I sampled about 3 seconds of noise. This was the resulting file. There's no EQ or compression, just the normalization to bring up the volume, then noise reduction. There seems to me to be very little degradation to the vocal quality, and no pumping artifacts that seemed to plague most of the noise gates I tried.

View attachment 104900

Does this get close to your goal?

Many of the things which I want to mention here I just posted above (in my previous post a few mins back), I request please have a look at it otherwise If I post here again it may look like I'm spamming :)...

I listened to your file, it's sounds great (honestly: I can't say how less background noise it has or how good it sounds because in my headphones all recording sounds great that's why I'm dependent on members. But I did compare the soundbars in audacity with original file & played it the sound meter says there is no noise at all in first 30 seconds which is great), BTW I tried to mimic the result but couldn't. I remember in past you also mentioned once to normalize the recording so again I tried it in Audacity, it ruined the recording with huge hiss. I selected the soundbar and applied normalize with -0db and attached file is the result, have I done something wrong or do I need to use Reaper?

View attachment 79% gain_SM57.mp3

Again thank you so much, for this unwavering support. I believe this quest is about to be over as soon as I get response:

Before you posted reply I already submitted (around 2 days ago) 5+ samples to my publisher and waiting for their response.
I'd update you whatever the result I get :)
 
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Publisher and video course from same sound like an oxymoron or a scam like what the vanity presses do to writers.

Please tell us about your video course.
And how your publisher will publish you especially since you seem to still be learning the basics.

Good luck with your course. I hope it helps you. I found that spending money on more books and experimenting worked best for me.

:) It sounds looks like you got an impression that I'm creating a course about Sound recording etc... If so I'm afraid, you're wrong my friend. It's not my stream. I'm just learning these ways to record my voice Better so that I use this process in my work.

Publisher: There is a publishing house which releases educational DVD and circulate it to their network (cites and towns.), It may not how things work at your end but it works for me.

I'm creating a course in my stream where I live and breath, which has nothing to do with Sound industry etc... but as you might know while recording from camera, one must need to record voice so I do need to fix a few issue which are coming in my way. btw I have been using lav mic and usb mics for long time but at that time requirement was different so I do have some knowledge and last year I upgraded to XLR mic.

Thanks for the kind words :)
 
I listened to your file, it's sounds great (honestly: I can't say how less background noise it has or how good it sounds because in my headphones all recording sounds great that's why I'm dependent on members. But I did compare the soundbars in audacity with original file & played it the sound meter says there is no noise at all in first 30 seconds which is great), BTW I tried to mimic the result but couldn't. I remember in past you also mentioned once to normalize the recording so again I tried it in Audacity, it ruined the recording with huge hiss. I selected the soundbar and applied normalize with -0db and attached file is the result, have I done something wrong or do I need to use Reaper?

View attachment 104901

I'm not sure how you got so much noise when you normalized the file. Something's wrong somewhere. Did you select the whole file and then normalize?

Normalizing simply adjust ALL levels to a target point. If you Normalize to 0dB, the program should find the highest point in the recording and determine the difference between that level and 0 dB. So if your loudest peak reading is -18 dB and your noise floor is -58 dB, normalization will raise everything by 18 db which sets the noise floor at -40 db. (still S/N of 40dB)

What I then did was to apply noise reduction after normalization. That left the highest signal at 0 dB and dropped the noise floor by about 30 or so dB.

I used Reaper instead of Audacity since i work with that program a lot more. You can test it. Its free to try out for 60 days, and if you like it, the cost really is pretty reasonable at $60. That's less than buying an SM57. It comes with a boatload of plug-ins. I think the ReaFIR noise reduction is better than Audacity's.

The only question is if you have enough computer to run it. I can do basic mixing on my laptop with an I3 processor, and 4GB ram. For a single channel, it should be no problem at all.

BTW, I chose the SM57 file because I thought that one sounded better than the MXL for both tone and ambient noise.
 
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