Aux Send/Return?

[Vertigo50]

Okay, I've been doing recording for a while, but mostly within my DAW. I'm starting to branch into hardware processors and I'm experimenting.

I have a Behringer MX602A (what a workhorse!) and I am trying to plug a cheapo guitar effects processor (Zoom 505) into the AUX Send/Return to get some compression and other effects.

So I have a few questions.

1. If I adjust the AUX level on a channel, is that adjusting the wet/dry mix to the AUX? In other words, if I crank it all the way up, is that full wet, and left, full dry? That seems to be it, but I'm not sure.

2. Almost no matter what I do, I get a little bit (or a lot) of distortion. This could just be that the effects processor is cheap, but maybe I'm doing something wrong.

3. I'm using instrument cables to go from the Send to the effects box and back to Return. Is this bad? And could this be causing the distortion?

Thanks for the help.

 

[M.Brane]

The aux knob on the channel simply adjusts the amount of signal that is sent to the effect. The returns that are on the right above the main & headphone/control room knobs adjust the level from the effect that is sent to the main mix bus. All the knobs have a detent at 12:00 that is unity gain.

The overall FX vs. dry mix would be controlled by the send/return levels vs. the level of the channel level i.e. if you turn the channel level all the way down, and leave the send/return levels at unity you would have a 100% wet mix assuming your processor is set to 100% wet.

The Behringer mixers are setup to run at -10db levels (consumer & low-end pro audio gear levels) so if you have an effect unit that is +4db (true pro audio gear) you'll need to be real mindful of the gain levels on the sends/returns to avoid clipping/distortion.

As long as your cables are good they shouldn't be a problem.

HTH

 

[sonusman]

if you turn the channel level all the way down, and leave the send/return levels at unity you would have a 100% wet mix assuming your processor is set to 100% wet.

Actually, if the aux send is a post fader send, turning down the channel volume also turns down the aux send volume. You would need a pre fader send to do what you are saying here. It is a distinction that needs to be made, because pre/post fader aux sends not only respond very differently, but also usually sound different depending upon how much eq you do on the channel.

The Behringer mixers are setup to run at -10db levels (consumer & low-end pro audio gear levels) so if you have an effect unit that is +4db (true pro audio gear) you'll need to be real mindful of the gain levels on the sends/returns to avoid clipping/distortion.

Actually, if the Behringer is working at -10, you would be feeding a very aniemic signal to the processor, so it really wouldn't matter that the effect processor runs at +4 because there would be little chance that you are clipping the input of a +4 device sending a -10 signal to it! Thus, the output wouldn't be clipping the return on the console either.

Quite possibly what is happening is that the Zoom 505 wants to see an instrument level signal, and that is much lower than even a -10 line level signal. The solution here is to make sure that the input level on the Zoom is set very low, and if it is getting so low that you cannot find a comfortable operating range, then you would decrease the aux send master level, or just the aux send on the channels.

The wet/dry mix needs to be set to totally wet on the effects processor when used in this way. Basically, if the aux send is post fader, then you will not achieve more than say a 40/60 mix at best (40 being dry, 60 being effects). You would need a pre fader aux send to achieve 100% wet via an aux send/return scenario.

Hope this helps a bit.

Ed

 

[Vertigo50]

Thanks for both replies. I'm starting to get the gist, but let me ask a slightly simpler question and hopefully you can clarify a little more for me.

Given the mixer and the effects, and assuming the effects box is completely wet (which it is):

1. What settings should I use on the mixer to get the wettest signal possible?

2. Is there no way, other than a PRE AUX send to get a totally wet signal?

3. What specifically does each of these knobs control in this scenario? And how do they affect each other?

-Channel Level
-Channel AUX
-AUX Return


For example, if I have the channel AUX all the way up, but I turn up the Channel Level, it seems like it gets drier the more I turn up the Channel Level.


Sorry to keep getting deeper with this, but I really want to wrap my head around this so I can move on from here.

 

[M.Brane]

The channel level controls the amount of signal sent from the channel to the main mix bus. These have the same function as the faders on larger boards.

The send controls the amount of signal sent from the channel to the send . Both sends on the Behringer are mono, post EQ.

The return controls the amount of signal sent to the main mix bus from your external device.

Sonusman brings up a good point about the Zoom expecting an instrument level input. You'll probably have to drop the input level on the Zoom way down to keep it from clipping.

You don't want to light up the red lights on any of this stuff at any time. The Zoom because it's digital, and the Behringer because it's cheap. I don't even like to light up the yellow ones on my 802.

Edit: I got curious about the 602, so I dug up the manual. Looks like you only have 1 post-fader send so you won't be able to get a 100% wet mix. The 802 has 2 sends: 1 pre-fader, 1 post.