Amp to get for marshall sound in a bed room setting

ms1995

New member
I am going to record a cover of Cliffs of Dover so that is the sound I am going for, I will mic up a marshall with an sm57 but somehow I fell a 100w marshall with a 4x12 is NOT the way to go as it will not give me the sound I want (because it will be too loud for a bedroom and if I have the master way down I just won't get the sound I want). Is a marshall plexi into a 1x12 cab feasible? Should I get a marshall combo amp to mic up? Do I have any idea what I am talking about? What amp do I get!?!?
 
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What's your budget?

This is a kick-ass amp that will give you what you want (I own several Carol Ann amps).

Carol-Ann Amplifiers HS2
CAROL-ANN HS-2 AMPS | Humbucker Music

Or you can go with this too if you want something that really has that Marshall look.

Head
Carol-Ann British Series 67-18H 18 Watt Plexi Head | Humbucker Music
Combo version
Carol-Ann Amplifiers 18W Combo
Carol-Ann British Series 67-18C 18 Watt Plexi Combo | Humbucker Music

Of course...there are all kinds of Marshall clones out there, and at much lower prices...but the Carol Ann amps are very high quality from one of the best amp builders around.
 
The budget is not in question. And I am more concerned with the proper way to go about close micing amps in general. I know I want a marshall although I have heard great things about these Carol-Ann amps you mentioned. Mainly I want to know the feasability of using a 100 watt marshall to record in a bed room setting, like I feel like a 4x12 is overkill and in a small room won't get me the sound I want, but I also don't know if you can run a 100w marshall into 1x12 celestion speaker, I really just don't know if what I really need is a stack, or a smaller marshall combo amp is what I need? I understand for live playing you can mic up a 4x12 cab no problem, but what about within the confines of a small room in a public neighborhood? As much as I feel I need/want a marshall stack, I'm starting to think using an sm57 on a smaller marshall combo amp is gonna be the way to go. And again the only variable I am concerned with is getting the bassy-boosted-marshall-strat-eric-johnsony sound in a small room
 
As you shop around for options, take a look at a good load box and/or attenuator. I'm using a Two Notes Torpedo Reload as my daily driver, and it's been a life-saver. I moved from a soundproof basement studio to a small studio/office in a densely populated neighborhood. I just can't crank up my 50W JCM800 any more. So I run the amp into the Torpedo, line out to an interface, then use a speaker sim VST to emulate the cabinet/mic/room. I think the results are pretty astounding, and it's completely silent (except for the strings of the guitar and the fizzy sound the load box makes). I could also use the attenuator of the Torpedo to run to a real cabinet, but honestly the Wall Of Sound VST does a good enough job that I don't even bother any more.

I saw that Universal Audio released the OX, which is at the high end of the price spectrum. And Two Notes has the Captor at the lower end of the range.

Anyways, it's another option to consider in your quest for big tone in a small room.
 
Ok great I will def look into load boxes and attenuators. As for amp simulation :) part of me feels like micing up the amp is the only way to go, for whatever reason I feel like a direct signal with amp simulation will just be missing something (but then again I have exactly 0 experience recording so I'm also talking out my ass).
 
Ok great I will def look into load boxes and attenuators. As for amp simulation :) part of me feels like micing up the amp is the only way to go, for whatever reason I feel like a direct signal with amp simulation will just be missing something (but then again I have exactly 0 experience recording so I'm also talking out my ass).

I'm with you there. I'm not a fan of amp sims (although I've heard a few that have wowed me). But speaker sims, on the other hand, can be pretty darned convincing. You let your actual amp do it's thing, but instead of feeding it into a speaker cabinet, you let the cab sim VST do the filtering.

I'd still rather be shaking the walls with a cabinet and real speakers pushing air but alas, it's not in the cards for me in my current space. I miss controlled feedback and the raw power of a cabinet, but using a load box and a cab sim VST has actually been a very good substitute.

It may or may not be right for your tastes, but I can say that it can yield some very good results.
 
TBH...and this is my opinion from using attenuators (I've got 3 of them in my studio for different wattages)...they can be great with higher wattage amps where you just want to shave off some of the level in order to get more amp drive, but when you push them, they will "mush" out the tone, plus, most tend to impart some of their own tone on the signal from the amp or they suck some of yours away. Sometimes you can compensate for that with some EQ shaping.

Not saying don't bother...just that don't be surprised if the result is different from what you could do with just the amp.

Also, if you have a 100W Marshall that you like to crank in order to get your sound...you can also try just sticking the cab in a clothes closet...put a mic in front of it, close the door and crank away. :)

Otherwise, a lower wattage amp might be a good option if you want a regular bedroom-use amp, where you can just turn it on and get the desired tones at lower levels...but IMO, you never get exactly the same tones that can come from a cranked 50/100W amp into a cab, pushing some air...but that may not always be critical in many recording situations were those differences are not going to be as obvious in the final mix.
 
This conundrum has been thrashed about ever since peeps got home recording!
The bottom line is, for all sorts of electronic, physical and psycho acoustical reasons you cannot (quite) duplicate a rip snorting 100W stack at lower volume.

And VOLUME is the key point here. You say the 100watter will be "too loud" in a bedroom. Why? Social reasons? If so, i.e. you are upsetting folks then you are on a hiding to nothing because even ONE watt into a decent guitar 12 will produce 100dB SPL and that's 'king loud! Of course, in your particular circumstances you might be able to run at 100dB for certain times of the day but if you KNOW people are being bothered it cramps yer style!

As for a 100W 1X12"? Yes there are several 100W Celestion drive units but many guitarists don't care for their sound compared to a V30 or Green back. The 60W Creamback seem to get universal approval and IF you are careful would be safe on a 100W amp. I don't suggest it. Speakers should be rated at least 50% over stated amp power but Cellies are tough and so long as you don't got for massive overdrive a 60 watt speaker should live. Your hearing is another matter however!

Dave.
 
I also don't know if you can run a 100w marshall into 1x12 celestion speaker,

Check the resistances. The speaker and amp should both list what resistance they run at (4 ohms or 8 ohms or whatever). If they match, you're good to go.
 
Check the resistances. The speaker and amp should both list what resistance they run at (4 ohms or 8 ohms or whatever). If they match, you're good to go.

Well not quite. Yes the impedances should be roughly the same as set on the amplifier but if you ran a 100W valve amp into a 25W Greenback it would be in serious danger. Even a speaker rated AT 100W is not completely safe because almost all 100W valve stages can deliver 30 or 40 W over that figure (depends on mains volts) and a few, including certain Marshall models can hit twice rated power if you drive the tits off them.

My suggestion of the 60W rated Creamback is based on two factors.
1) Celestion power ratings are conservative (even the Greeny would last quite a while!) and the Creamback has already earned a reputation for toughness.

2) Even 60W in a bedroom into a 100dB/W/mtr speaker is 'king loud! Around 120dB and I doubt peeps could stand it for long.

Dave.
 
Well not quite. Yes the impedances should be roughly the same as set on the amplifier but if you ran a 100W valve amp into a 25W Greenback it would be in serious danger. Even a speaker rated AT 100W is not completely safe because almost all 100W valve stages can deliver 30 or 40 W over that figure (depends on mains volts) and a few, including certain Marshall models can hit twice rated power if you drive the tits off them.

My suggestion of the 60W rated Creamback is based on two factors.
1) Celestion power ratings are conservative (even the Greeny would last quite a while!) and the Creamback has already earned a reputation for toughness.

2) Even 60W in a bedroom into a 100dB/W/mtr speaker is 'king loud! Around 120dB and I doubt peeps could stand it for long.

Dave.

Right. I always forget about sheer wattage (I'm probably gonna blow up my PBR amp one day)
 
I have a Fulltone Full-Drive 2 MOSFET pedal.

The tone that comes out of that thing is incredible, especially with both buttons engaged.

I rarely use the gain on my AC30, I just run it clean with the Full-Drive 2 providing the breakup and sustain.
 
Find a low wattage tube amp like a Bugera or Fender, as long as it has a loop in it.

I am going to record a cover of Cliffs of Dover so that is the sound I am going for, I will mic up a marshall with an sm57 but somehow I fell a 100w marshall with a 4x12 is NOT the way to go as it will not give me the sound I want (because it will be too loud for a bedroom and if I have the master way down I just won't get the sound I want). Is a marshall plexi into a 1x12 cab feasible? Should I get a marshall combo amp to mic up? Do I have any idea what I am talking about? What amp do I get!?!?

Use the pre amp out from the Marshall, and run the line into the power amp input of the low wattage amp, and voila... Marshall sound w/ 1-5 watts of overdriven outputs for a complete tube package.
You will have to tweak it to the closest to the sound you are looking for, but many HUGE names record with small amps. I am not a big fan of Marshall in general, but I have the Gov’ner pedal and a SS mini stack into an 8” just for that signature sound when needed...
My 2 cents worth.
 
Rivera Rock Crusher Recording. Load box but not simply 'resistive' it works on 'reactance'....There's a huge difference in the type of output signal from each of these protocols. A resistive load box simply adds a fixed impedance to the speaker output on your amp. This allows you to crank a high-wattage amp but the output stage of a tube amp is much more complicated than just a simple 16/8/4 ohm load.

Reactance follows exactly what the amps' output is doing. The ouput of an amp being driven hard with a music instrument input is constantly varied in it's impedance throughout the frequency range of the instrument being amplified.

The Rock Crusher Recording is also equiped with a 14 band eq and a convenient chart of tested speakers and speaker combinations so you dial up your 30watt Celestion, your EV 12, etc etc...

In the "recording" mode you don't need to use a speaker at all. You record direct to your interface and the volume will be whatever your playback monitors are set on but the sound will be the level of the amp raging through the output tubes and transformer!

I own one. It works. Better than ANY iso-box I've ever built or heard and definitely better than a pedal or an emulation through software....although some of the software is damn close these days!
 
The Reactor type load boxes work best. Two notes has one(or two). The Rivera gold, also the Radial JDX500 Reactor( needs a 500 series box). I’ve tried the two notes (studio), and the JDX. The two notes I used was shortly after it came out. I’m pretty sure it’s has a bunch of upgrades since then. I was looking at DIs wanting to add some color DIs. The Sweetwater rep turned me on to the JDX Edit: ( you’ll still need a load box with the JDX for speaker volume control). I tried it, liked it, and I do use it sometimes. I can get close to a loud amp-mic, and in a dense mix it’s not noticeable but, it’s not the same. Something about getting the right mic, in the sweet spot of the speaker, that’s moving a bit, gets a certain fat percussive tone.

PS I’ve heard an excellent Marshall modded sound, recorded with a mic’d up Friedman Runt 20.
 
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Marshall also has a number of recent amps that may be useful. Last year they introduced the Origin series. You can get a nice crunch sound from it when you overdrive it. It has a master volume control so it's very easy to set it up for a clean sound as well, and the character of the amp is very much in the Marshall family. As with a good number of other Marshall amps the thing sounds better when you crank the master up. They come in 50 and 20 watt heads and combos. They have built in power scaling to take you from full power to medium and low settings. On my 50 watt head, the medium power setting is slightly quieter than the full 50 watts. The low power setting is significantly quieter than either of the other two. Low power is sort of bedroom friendly level, but the amp does sound best at full power. The change in tone is more subtle than with other amps that switch between pentode and triode mode on the power tubes to achieve half power. Oh, and the clean sound from the Origin is a thing of beauty.

This year Marshall released two new amp lines, the Studio Classic and the Studio Vintage. 20 watt heads and combos that can switch to a 5 watt mode. The Studio Classic is modeled after a JCM 800 2203. The Studio Vintage is modeled after a JMP 1959 Super Lead Plexi. They look, behave and sound a LOT like their bigger counterparts. They also cost around twice as much quid as an Origin. The Origin does have a bit of Plexi character, but it's really its own thing. The Studio Vintage is a 20/5 watt Plexi. Again, to get the Studio Vintage to sound like a Plexi you have to crank it. In 20 watt mode you would still need an attenuator. In 5 watt mode you can do pub gigs. Not exactly bedroom levels. These are still seriously loud amps.

Speakers and cabs make a huge difference as well.

Roland Blues Cube with the Eric Johnson tone capsule might be another option if you can find one.
 
I'm going to commit heresy and recommend a solid-state amp. Don't get me wrong, I'm a tube Marshall guy all the way, but tube amps need to be pushed to sound good, and even a 5-watt tube amp is too loud for the bedroom. I like attenuators, too (a Weber MiniMASS in my case), but they can only do so much. Once you turn them down into the weeds, they compromise the tone.

When I need Marshall sound at low volumes, I use a Vox MV50 "Rock" model. It uses Vox's "NuTube" device to get tube sound, then couples it with a 50-watt Class D power amp. The head fits in the palm of your hand. Since the "tube amp" sound is generated in the preamp section, and the volume control simply varies the output of the passively-voiced power amp, it retains its cranked-stack character down to near-zero volume levels.

It also makes a great backup for gigging. Into one or more 12" speakers, the MV50 sounds awesome, makes a serious amount of noise, and takes up no additional space in the car.

For quiet recording at home, I would recommend going direct, using a speaker-modeling direct box (I have an H&K Red Box), or a load dump with software IRs in your computer. My reasoning is, you're likely to get background noise bleeding into your guitar track if you're micing a quiet cab. A direct box takes all the background noise (not to mention a less-than-perfect room) out of the equation.
 
That song was recorded with a BK Butler tube driver and Echoplex through a Marshall 100 watt. What I hear on that track are the first two things most importantly. I really think any 1watt tube amp will do or an amp sim. I think the Marshall 100 is least of that guitar sound.
 
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