achieving that clear sound

J

joemeshuggah

New member
...ok...im pretty new to the whole recording thing...probably my biggest interest right now is achieving that 3 dimensional stereo sound that comes through on professionally done recordings...i can come relatively close with everything but the bass guitar...i know with guitar tracks (i think, at least) you want to record two tracks and then pan them pretty hard...is this true for the bass as well? it doesnt seem like its done on pro recordings...but ive noticed on my bands demo or when i try to record stuff on my own at home the bass just totally kills the quality of the recording....like it puts a huge fog over everything. any tips or suggestions? (just so you know for my bands demo we didnt use any amps...just plugged direct through a compressor...for my home recordings i generally dont use mics on anything...i just use an amp simulator and plug direct through that with the bypass.)
 
Typically, bass is panned straight down the middle. If you are looking for a more "3 dimensional sound" you could experiment with doubling the bass track and panning it hard left and right (like the guitars) or actually recording a stereo bass using a Y-cable.

Also, how are you recording the bass? You mention everything is direct with a modeler. Are you using a bass modeler or are you recording the bass straight into the recorder? It's very possible that the tone (or lack thereof) of the bass needs to change, which can be easily remedied with a bass modeler. You might also benefit from using a mic preamp.

Consider too that your problem may not be the bass so much as the guitars. Are the lows of your guitars emphasized? Might want to consider cutting the lows and giving the bass a little more room to work in.

Cy
 
I think it's mainly an EQ problem. A bass that is fogging everything up has usually too much bass/lo mid content and covers up drums drums and guitars. Try cutting the lo mids first, to give the guitars more space. If the bass still fights with the kick drum, fiddle some more with the EQ to give them their own sonic space.

David.
 
I agree with Cyrokk. That is usually the way it is done. I'm not sure what you mean by three-dimensionality.

Several years ago I had trouble getting "that" bass sound, but as I gained experience it got easier. Work them ears and knobs man.

Sometimes I will still miss something in the mix, like a level that may be too low if my ears are tired or I'm not paying attention to the overall mix and I'm concentrating on another channel.

Concentrate while you are working.
 
I never even thought to duplicate and hard pan the bass..
Thats a pretty cool trick... keeps the bass away from the drum.
 
doubling your bass track is a cool trick that aint gonna work 98% of the time. unless you are a bass soloist the purpose of the bass is to be rock steady.

1) don't make the volume on the bass too high it will cloud your mix.

2) if your bass player is too dynamic, compress the bass. i've only recorded one bass track that didn't need to be compressed.

3) make sure your bass isn't trampling over the dynamic range of other instruments by limiting (if necessary) its dynamic range with eq cuts.

4) the reason that the bass is usually panned right down the middle is so that both speakers (in a stereo setup) reproduce the bass sound so that neither speaker is asked to work too hard.

for certain songs i will pan the bass slightly to one side (5% L)and the kick to the other (%5 R) so that the lead vocal sits better down the middle.
 
Yah, what Crosstudio said. Panning the bass right in the middle ain't that cool because it competes for some of the same frequencies as the kick does. For example, you might try panning the kick 5% to the left and the kick 5% to the right. Also, recording the bass guitar direct when it is played very accurately (this means proper picking, intonation. string youth, etc.) can be of some help.
 
oops, too much drinking. I meant to say pan the kick left 5%, then pan the bass 5% right. sorry. good luck.
 
plus.......

......besides the point Crossstudio and Darwin hit on......

.......that it requires more power to pump out lower frequencies at equivilent volumes as the higher frequencies, and not centering or at least balacing the low frequencies (bass and kick) may bring up power handling issues with your system.......

....it is also true that as the frequecies lower, so does the discernable directionality of the sound.

Which is why it doesn't matter exactly where you put a sub-woofer (to a point), or that diffusion/dispersion only needs to work to about 400-500k or so.

I think that you will achieve better results from trying to give the bass space in the frequency spectrum of the overall mix than trying to move the low end around in the stereo field.

Personally, i have gotten good results by using a direct box to split the bass for a direct track (for low end clarity) and to a mic'd amp track(for some mid/higher end uummmph).......and then shelving each and mixing the two together to taste.

-mike
 
one trick that can be used to make a "3d sound" is to drop that bassline strong in the middle, then create a stereo track with the same bassline, perhaps with mild echo/delay/reverb, put the same mono track on both channels, lower the level a bit, so it doesn't overpower the center track totally, and switch the phase on one of the channels (invert/flip in many editors)-while this will be useless in mono, in stereo, it will seem "3dish" because the speakers pumping in opposite directions scrambles the brain's sense of soundfield cues from the speakers. make sure you keep a good strong track in the center, though, so it doesn't sound like crap in mono. this may be a cheapo way to do it (i don't know how serious pros might do it), but it does SOMETHING, at least. i don't know how deep out-of-phase tricks work at to the human ear as far as frequency-my guess is that the lack of perceived directionality on low enough tracks may nullify this effect somewhat, though it will also probably make it seem less fake, in regards to lower fundamental notes on bass.
 
Try adding the bass into the mix early on, and then add around it. It sounds like you create your mix and then try to drop the bass in. Work the other way around. I always start a mix with just the bass and bass drum. Get them sounding good together when there is nothing else masking them, and then gradually add the rest of everything starting with the drum kit followed by the more important instruments/vocals and ending with the least important instruents. As you add each layer, listen to how it changes what was already in the mix, such as your bass. If the change is undesireable, eq/compress/process the instrument you just added until it no longer adversly changes the sound of the rest of the mix.
 
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