using a mic preamp before my audio interface isc it necessary and how do i do it?

Wynarc

New member
Hej guys and gals.
ive been recording for a while now and everything works fine. i use tracktion and fruityloops. i have recently seen lots of videos on youtube regarding mic pre amps because i was thinking of trying it out. The problem is that the more i watch the more confused i get as to what is right and wrong. here are some of the questions i have:

1. can i put a tube pre amp(behringer mic100) before my audio interface and will it improve my sound. (i already have a built in mic pre amp on my uphoria umc22) ?

2. is it correct to assume that if i turn down the preamp in the umc22 and use the mic100 to control gain i will get less noise? according to a video i have seen

3. do i need to use a DI box inbetween the preamp and interface? according to a video i have seen

4. if it aint broke dont fix it?

oh and just to be a pain in the *** i have borrowed a joe meek 3Q and was wondering if that can be put in front of my audio interface?

thanks in advance. Wyn
 
Hi Wynarc...........my first advice would be to not buy a pre-amp just "because". You seem to be saying that "everything works fine" now. On YouTube and other sites there is a lot of discussion going on about pre-amps.......for a number of different reasons.......but that doesn't mean you need one or could benefit noticeably from one or even if you could that it should be your next investment for better results.

Question #1 - Yes....you could if you wanted to but there may be no obvious sound improvement.
Question #2 - It's possible but you could also end up with MORE noise.
Question #3 - Doubt it
Question #4 - YES......do you REALLY NEED a new or better pre-amp right now? What other equipment do you have that an upgrade might be better for you to do.

And yes.....you can put the Joe Meek Q3 in front of the AI. The Joe Meek is a very good unit with very good pre=amps. I happen to have one from the "old days" and still use it from time to time. Try out the Joe Meek Q3 and see for yourself it you like the results.
 
A mic preamp 'may' impart a particular sound to the mic you are using, sometimes referred to as 'coloration'. It may warm up the sound of a mic. You might like the coloration or not. If adding another stage of amplification/gain to a preamp in your interface, do a bit of searching on the subject of 'gain staging' to learn how best to set the gains of each preamp.

The output of most preamps is 'line level'. When connecting an additional preamp to your interface you'll want use the 'line' input. The TRS part of the combo jack on the UMC22 is likely the line input, so depending on the output jack of the external preamp you would connect with either an XLR to 1/4"TRS or a 1/4"TRS to 1/4"TRS.

The Joe Meek Q3.... is it actually the threeQ? If so, the adjustment on the 'Compress' knob is a bit touchy to adjust and easy to go further into compression than the lights actually convey. The threeQ can color the sound a bit.
 

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thanks a lot mickster, that cleared up a few things that i was a bit frustrated over. there are A LOT of youtube videos on this subject, and they confuse more than they inform, IMHO. thanks for the feedback. ille try the joe meek and see if i get some good results. just so ime clear on setting it up;

-should i use the phantom power on the meek or the Uphoria? and should the +4dBu or the -10dBu be depressed?

Wyn
 
Phantom power on the unit connected to the mic. Most devices had DC blocking capacitors, so further downstream probably won't work.

Your ears must be the judge of your quality concerns. I'm just mystified why you didn't just try it and use the best sounding approach.
 
hej rob, i was a little concerned about damaging something so i thought ide ask first, just to make sure.
 
Thanks Mark.......you're correct. It's actually called the 3Q.

Wynarc.....you don't mention the mic you're using so I don't know if it even needs phantom power. If it does you would need to have the phantom power on in the 3Q or you will not get any sound to the AI. The AI would not need phantom power on as it would just be getting a normal signal from the 3Q. If your mic doesn't require phantom power then neither unit needs it turned on.

Also........what Mark mentioned above about the regarding the 3Q compressor knob is true. If you want compression........just make small adjustments to see how it sounds.
 
+4dBu/-10dBv switch - selects the output operating level of the threeQ,
either to the professional +4dBu level, or to the -10dBv semi pro level., this is from the manual. can anyone tell me what that means( maybe there should be a level for noobs):rolleyes:
 
I found the email I sent to PMI Audio about setting the JM 3Q compressor. It may help if you should play around with it.......

name: Mark xxxxxx
address: xxxxxxx
city_province: xxxxxx
state: xx
zip_code: xxxxx
country: USA
technical_problem: ThreeQ... just bought one and having difficult time
understanding the compressor (I do have other gear with Compressors). Seem
to get mild, usable compression before GR LED's come on. Once a GR LED
lights (dialed about 4-5), the compression becomes quite noticeable as
"thump" as as it works. Increasing compression setting makes "thump" more
prevalent. Assume Compression control is setting threshold. Trying to find
good balance of Attack/Release settings for vocals. I realize optical
compressors are non-linear, but I can't seem to figure out the curve of this
one and if something happens at a knee point to give a such a noticeable
effect to the sound. Are there curves available to better understand the
operation? Am I actually getting a mild gain reduction before the GR LED's
illuminate or am I just thinking this is so?
Thanks....
Submit: Submit Now
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Mark,
You should hear roughly 1.9dB of gain reduction before the first GR LED
illuminates. You get about 3db of gain reduction when the first "-2" LED
just starts to flicker. The attack time is really fast so I set it to its
slowest setting when doing vocals. I also set the release fairly slow.
This will give you a nice even compression across the vocal track and avoid
"pumping". Thanks and let me know if you have any more questions.
--
Barry Stone
Technical Support
PMI Audio Group
1845 W. 169th Street
Gardena, CA 90247
+310-323-9050 phone
+310-323-9051 fax
PMI Audio
-----
 
Thanks for posting this, Mark. I wonder if this is true for the VC3Q as well? I have some research to do.
Dale
 
this was the video that confused me quite a bit......

That's because the diagram is totally wrong and you probably know more about the subject than whoever made the video. There's lots of rubbish spoken about mic preamps but there's nothing magic about them.
 
Already well answered but I will concur that most any interface will give you enough gain so you dont need a preamp for that. So the only other reason to use one is to improve the tone. So using a cheap preamp is worse than not using one at all.
 
Ditto...as close to direct from mic to daw with as few connections as possible is my MO.. magic preamps pffft!
 
Just watched the video until the very first "you might blow up your interface" comment - immediately labelled the guy as clueless and pressed stop. In these things it's very important to separate knowledge from bluster. If you make instructional videos it's really hard to be technically correct and be understood, so one route is to dumb it down so more people get the basics, but that often means you have to explain things wrong, so they're understood, or explain them right and have it go over their heads - especially as you have no idea of the existing knowledge base of every viewer. You will confuse some and annoy others with your simplifications.

However - what I learned when I was 17 about connecting things up is that you use your common sense and try things out. Carefully. No Youtube in 1973. Guitar amp. second hand tube amp, speakers, reel to reel, a couple of mics. All different connectors and sockets. Never ever blew anything up. Plug a guitar into a mic socket at the meter hit the stops quickly when you gradually turned up from zero. Connecting the loudspeaker output of a radiogram to the mic in did the same, but more! The line input was better, as long as I kept the level down. In the headphones I learned to heart distortion, hums and noises. Some mics seemed to hiss more than others when I turned the volume up. Eventually you get to know what works and to be able to compare and contrast results.

Nowadays why do people never do this any more? You ask strangers. If you have the bits - say a modest interface and a tube pre-amp, then why do you need other people at all? Surely you connect it up and then fiddle and experiment until you find the quietest system - which will be the best one for you. If you see on the net that a certain weird system is better, even though you have to stand on your head to do it - try it out carefully and use your ears. We're recording with quality as an aim - so we need to train our ears. It really is the most vital skill. We get posts from people who cannot even describe audio properly. We get people suffering from 'distortion' that turns out to be hiss. We get 'hum' that turns out to be data noise. We get 'buzzes' that turn out to be clicks etc etc. If people cannot describe in words what they hear, our regular contributors who spend a lot of their time trying to help folk have an arm tied behind their backs. Back in the 70s/80s when we had cassettes, we also had a choice. To hiss, or not to hiss? Some people recorded with Dolby on, then turned it off for replay. Some stalwarts didn't use it at all because to their ears hiss was better than the impact Dolby had on the recorded sound. Others would record with extra HF, then turn it down on replay. We had arguments on Dolby B and then C, and then DBX and the first experience many of us had of compression. Some people even used DBX as a compressor, as they liked what it did. others thought them mad. When I started teaching Music Tech to 16-20 yr olds I discovered only about 25% of a typical group could hear compresssion. prodding the in/out button was undetectable.

Sorry for the rant, but I really wish we could put health warnings on Youtube videos, because some do damage your musical health. People need to develop their own investigative and experimental skills. If you invent a great new system that works brilliantly for your music does it matter if plonkers on Youtube tell you never to do this because the world will end, your guitar collection melt down and your speaker cones fly across the floor.

Modern equipment gets sold with money back guarantees, umpteen day no quibble returns and then maybe a 3 year warranty. If it fell over the minute you reversed a connection, it would be a crap piece of kit wouldn't it?

I have been abusing equipment for over 40 years and have blown one loudspeaker because of sheer stupidity so I deserved it, and never damaged one item by incorrect connection. I've made loads of bangs, shreaks and crackles. I can describe the difference between a hum and a buzz, crackle and hiss. I never read instructions or manuals on the premise that if it's that stupidly designed I need to, the product is poor. If I get stuck, then, and only then do I look at a manual, because they take six pages to tell you how to connect the power, m and two lines to explain the vital functions. The you rely on a youtube video done by a 14 year old to explain how to do something because you don't wish to put the time in to learn your new bit of kit.

Grumpy old man mode off.
 
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