Trouble with electric guitar signal

Dinharder

New member
Hi all,

Im very noob to this so please have patience
Ive recently got enough space to have a small jam room in my basement and have some buddies over to jam with and record covers.

I use Logic Pro x with a zoom R16 as a controller and input. guitars are run from either an amp with emulated output into the r16 or a pod HD500X. Mics are run straight into the r16 and all are then sent to logic through the usb cable from the r16.

I have an issue I cant seem to get around. When recording several crunch guitars into logic and the r16 and several mics for vocals I find that the signal from the guitars can be very muddy and low compared to the other inputs. For example when recording a guitar through my POD HD500X into the R16 with a driven amp setting in the POD the sound from the guitar compared to the vocals from the mics is very muddy and not loud. The R16 input is in the red with lots of peaking even when I cut back the master input from the HD500 and turn down the amp sim volume. It just sounds messy and muddy. Where am I going wrong? Ive tried reducing all volume levels into the R16 but it still sounds muddy and low volume compared to the vocals and backing track I use.

Any suggestions? Sorry if I havent explained it very clearly but as I said this is pretty new to me so I’m not up with the lingo.

Thanks for any help in advance

Carl
 
'messy' probably indicates too much distortion. The general rule when recording electric guitars is less distortion sounds better.

The rest sounds like bad gainstaging. Your inputs should never be going into the red. Turn the mic gains down so you can balance the guitars without turning them too far up. 'Muddy' typically means too much mid-range. Its not unusual to 'scoop' the mids with EQ when mixing if there are multiple electric guitars.
 
TBH, it sounds like you're trying to do a lot at once, without really taking the time to figure out how to get just one thing working right. Work on one input at a time, and just get a single track recorded the way you want it, keeping in mind that they'll all add together, so you need to have your individual track record levels peaking probably somewhere around -12dB (recording at 24-bit depth).

The amp and POD outputs are LINE level so you'll have to make sure not to push the gain either on their output or the Zoom input. You might also try running one of them through a DI just to see if that cleans things up, and definitely don't put any DSP/inserts on that channel.

I used a POD HD400 for over 3 years - very versatile, but I never was completely satisfied with the mono/L send going direct and always went through a DI. If you are taking a stereo out, you'll need to make sure you're going into a stereo pair of inputs on the R16, too.
 
Hi Dinharder.......I also have an R16 and I use it as an audio interface and control surface as you do. I use Reaper. You mention "several" crunch guitars and "several" mics....and you seem to be saying you're recording all of them at the same time. I need some clarification please. The R16 has 8 inputs with only one capable of Hi-Z and 2 capable of phantom power. Can you give us a bit more detail as to what and where you input the signals on the R16? Also......despite the signal getting into the red on the R16.......what does the signal look like in Logic Pro? Each input should have an armed track ready on Logic Pro which should show some kind of level when a signal is applied. What you're trying to do seems as if it would be no problem for your setup......so......as another person suggested............what does each of your guitars / mics sound like when test recorded one at a time. I also have to assume you have no effects set up on Logic Pro?
 
Thanks for the helpful suggestions. In the end I switched out the r16 for a Zoom L12 Livetrak and stopped recording into a daw instead just using the livetrak and oh my what a difference! Everything sounds much better. Would recommend the L12.

Cheers

Cathal
 
the signal from the guitars can be very muddy and low compared to the other inputs. For example when recording a guitar through my POD HD500X into the R16 with a driven amp setting in the POD the sound from the guitar compared to the vocals from the mics is very muddy and not loud.
The PODs can give you muddy sounds. for me the PODs are not good for distortion guitars. You'll never get the same result as you would when you mic a marshal 50 watt and record that. Its night and day. PODS for me, always sound too digital and sterile.

So my words of advice, if you want to record great sounding distortion guitars is to use a good old SM57 and put it up against one of your guitar amp/cab speakers.

One of my techniques i use for getting a big, thick, distortion guitar sound: This will put the "power" in your power chords.

You need 2 mics for this:
  • Place one mic close to your amp's speaker and compress that signal with an 8:1 ratio settings, a fast attack, a semi fast release and a threshold of 6 to 20dB below the highest peak of the audio level. This high compression will cause your guitar sound to pump.
  • Place the 2nd mic and place it 5 to 9 feet away (room mic) from the amp's speaker.
  • Combine both sounds together and using the room mic just enough to give it that thick and chunky sound.
  • Do this in your DAW. I do not like compression in the recording stage, as you can never change the settings once its recorded. Compress this signal with a ratio of 5:1, a medium attack, a slow release, and the threshold is the same as the other one, between 6 to 20dB below the highest peak.
    always, use your ears as these are just general settings.
 
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