summing mixers?

Nathan1984

New member
Ok, so I am a total gear junky. I have been looking at a lot of new gear, and I have been seeing a lot of talk about summing mixers and such. I am not really even sure how or what a summing mixer works. Can anyone explain the uses and how to's of a summing mixer?
 
Just think of it as a basic mixer. In some cases a REALLY basic mixer (so basic that it won't even have volume controls or panning -- a set of left inputs, a set of right inputs and a summing buss).
 
That's kinda what I'm seeing, I was looking at an ssl summing mixer and it just seemed kinda pointless to have if you mix in the box. I guess its really intended for outboard hard drive recorders or reel 2 reel?
 
It's intended to sum your parts in the analog realm with much more headroom than is available in your DAW and record them back in as a stereo pair, or "print track". There are believers and non-believers. I made the leap of faith a couple of months ago and I won't be going back. The difference is huge.
 
Hey John...which one are you using?

Nathan....one thing to also keep in mind is that you need as many DA channels as you have DAW tracks that you want to sum in the analog domain. So, if all you have is a basic 2/4 channel converter interface, you will not be able to sum 35 tracks out of your DAW.

I have a 24-channel DA setup, and I do sum in the analog domain with a console....well actually, I'm mixing and doing outboard processing too, not just pure summing.
 
I have 16 channels da I can use, I just wasn't sure if it would be worth the price. It sounds as if you could use about any mixer with the necessary I/o count for summing though correct? Like if I had an Allen and Heath mixer with 16 line in's and outs I could use it for summing?
 
Well....each mixer will impart its flavor, so "any old mixer" won't give you the same quality end-result.
Also, with pure summing boxes of good quality, the circuitry is much shorter and cleaner than running through a whole mixer, in most cases.
In my situaiton, like I said, I'm actually using the mixer for more than just summing, so I need the mixer's routing. If you just want to sum, a basic summing box (or a mixer with a very clean channel path and master section) would be the better option.
 
I'm using the Dangerous D-box. Your average, every day Mackie type mixer will not give the desired effect (I tried). You need either a summing amplifier specifically built for this purpose, or one of the high-end consoles that they seek to emulate/replace.

Whether it's worth the price is something each person has to decide for themselves. The D-box comes with some really good (read: REALLY good) digital to analog converters. If you have a digital out on your interface, this is worth the price of admission by itself.
 
So then are you creating stems in the DAW going to the 8 channels in the D-box....or did you get more than one?

I would consider summing boxes in place of my mixer...but I need the Aux buses on the mixer (I'm sure there are summing boxes that have that capability too).
 
Yes, it's mixed down to eight channels. Everybody breaks it down differently, and I'm still trying different things to see what works best, but it goes something like;

1/2 drums
3/4 guitars/keys
5/6 backing vox/fx/percussion
7 lead vocal
8 bass

The D-box conveniently has a pan control for channels 7 and 8 so you can use them independently for centered tracks. Pretty handy.
 
Summing boxes can sound pretty good, but it won't take something that sounds terrible and make it sound great. This won't make the difference between an untenable mess and the greatest sounding mix ever. It's a more subtle thingand could be thought of as a final little spice to be used to put a great mix over the top, not as a necessary component to getting a professional sound.
 
It's intended to sum your parts in the analog realm with much more headroom than is available in your DAW
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." ;)

If by "headroom" you mean dynamic range, it's just physically impossible. Even 24 bits is more dynamic range than you'll get out of any active analog electronics, but most DAWs nowadays are summing in 64 bit float, which is an absolutely stupid amount of resolution and allow dynamic range which is impossible to match in the analog realm.

I am not trying to argue that there is nothing to the analog summing thing. Plenty of people swear that it makes a positive difference in their mixes, and that's all that really matters. I personally think that if there is a difference it is either psychosomatic (you feel better about the process, which makes a subtle difference in some of your mixing decisions) or more likely it's the subtle ways that the process fails to reproduce the mix as perfectly as digital (a little more noise, a little distortion...) that people enjoy. But I haven't really bothered with it myself.

I know for a fact that ITB summing is not the one thing keeping me from winning a Grammy.
 
"It's incontheevable!" :)

I meant it as an aesthetic adjective more than a technical term. The effect is difficult to describe, but I can assure you it is very real and not all that subtle. I did several a/b mixdowns with and without when I first got it.
 
No, it is easy to hear the difference between analog and digital summing. But using the term "headroom" to describe it is how internet misinformation gets started. (You incorrectly use the term, then other people see it and think that analog summing actually has more headroom and parrot that misinformation on several other forums and it gets out of hand quickly).
 
No, it is easy to hear the difference between analog and digital summing. But using the term "headroom" to describe it is how internet misinformation gets started. (You incorrectly use the term, then other people see it and think that analog summing actually has more headroom and parrot that misinformation on several other forums and it gets out of hand quickly).
And that's all I was trying to say.

A few years ago now I predicted that there would soon be a "virtual analog summing" plugin...

Et voila!
 
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