Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Studios doing double duty as control room and recording space?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    2,875
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 418 Times in 382 Posts
    Rep Power
    4008612
    Sign in to disable this ad
    The biggest issue you're going to have is the more technical facilities you build in, the more workload on the person tasked with keeping it all going. My experience of linking studios together with technically limited users is that setup is a real pain. Dante is an excellent way to make the rooms ultra versatile, but the interfacing requires somebody to get things going each session. Unskilled people do crazy things so rebuilding the systems from backups is commonplace. Somebody brings in their favourite plugins, and your it/tech person has to install their stuff, which then means the next users have menu items that confuse other less able people. They ALWAYS select the third item in a drop down, but suddenly it's the fourth item. People need to load and save media to transposable media, so each session needs transfer time.

    Real patch panels and tie-lines can work very well, but the real key feature is designing a system that is secure but easy to use, reliable but able to be tweaked, and requires little upkeep. I feel comfy with computers but in the last community system we had, we constantly struggled with the IT side of things. Cubase was very unhappy with constant changes to configurations and we had endless problems when one user altered things in one vsti, like drum assignments which messed up other people's files. We also had grief with sharing files. Somebody would record in studio one, but next session they'd have to use studio 2 which ha dslightly different kit, and now we record so much audio, getting this from room one to room two took too long. We then tried recording to memory sticks which worked fine but needed backups to be made all the time. We even tried centralised storage with individual accounts but the technician was off, all would grind to a halt because of data security . We ended up buying identical systems and having the c drives on removable caddies, which we could remove and backup in the tech office. Storage wise, we simply gave every user a 200gb removable drive, which seemed to work pretty well.

    The success of your project should be fine with either Dante, or simple tielines as long as your technical support is top notch. With no budget for a person full time available when you are open, you will sink rapidly because people will wreck the computers accidentally, and somebody good needs to be on hand to restore them to 100% every day. You will be amazed how many times things require rebuilding. People really do stupid things accidentally. Never we found maliciously, just things like "this will remove cubase, continue yes/no?" And for some reason they'd type Y!!!! Sounds like a great project, but a brave one.
    Last edited by rob aylestone; 09-08-2019 at 06:22.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to rob aylestone For This Useful Post:


  3. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    northampton uk home of Dr Who and Blackstar Amps!
    Posts
    10,019
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 672 Times in 636 Posts
    Rep Power
    9374895
    Deja bloody Vu Rob!

    In my microscopic computer based studio world that I setup for a musical son I was the only one with any analogue technical knowledge and just the merest smattering of computer nonce.

    He would ***k something up at least once a week and I would have to sort it out as best I could. Once I had to do a complete format and XP re install!

    I would like to throw out a few suggestions, I am of course no "pro" but I read and lurk a lot!

    First off I was gagging a bit then the 2i2 was mentioned..NO! Ok I guess for bedroom jockeys but much more robust and serious kit is needed. I would go so far as to say, look at RME.
    The gear has impeccable performance and will last virtually forever. I was just a day ago reading about the Fireface UFX+ and although the Total Mix software is extremely complex it has several "failsafes" Even if the AI is powred down and dissed from the PC it remembers ALL the last settings. I am also pretty sure setup "scenes" can be saved and locked in, possible pswd protected?

    Dante might not be a good solution but if money is to be saved look at installing shielded CAT5e cabling. Each cable can carry 4 balanced signals. Now I dare say if you put a dulcima from a 4038 ribbon down the same cable as a kick, the latter will crosstalk, so don't do that! Generally though the very tight, staggered twists of CAT cable means there is very little crosstalk. Of course, the cable can be used for a network system in the future if required. CAT cable can also carry video, S/PDIF, MIDI and modest DC power. MUCH cheaper than studio grade balanced mic cable and at 6mm OD you can get 4 circuits down the same hole as one!

    Do a great deal of homework and try where possible to duplicate kit in the various places. I mean, decide on minotrs and headphones and buy all the same models. Once you have a shopping list you can haggle for the best deal.

    Patchbays? If you go for them look for cheap S/H comms cabinets with lockable doors. That way routings will not easily be 'ked with, punters will have to ask to get stuff changed and so it can be properly recorded and managed.

    Bother the ass off local businesses for anything they might like to donate? E.g. CAT cable, outlets, crimp tools, plugs.

    No BTW no experience of the Rode box,not my scen podding but it looks excellent. Not cheap but as I said at the top, cheap is NOT the way to go for basic equipment.

    Dave.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to ecc83 For This Useful Post:


  5. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts
    Rep Power
    8
    You are going to need more than two channels if you are thinking of recording drums. I would say 12 channels as a minimum (to allow for one or two other instruments at the same time as a drum kit). So for a wall box I'd go for something like Wall Box 16+8 Way XLR D Type - Stageboxes - Cables & Leads - Studiospares and fill it with the appropriate connectors.
    JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration
    http://www.jrpmusic.co.uk

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to jamesperrett For This Useful Post:


  7. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts
    Rep Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by ecc83 View Post
    First off I was gagging a bit then the 2i2 was mentioned..NO! Ok I guess for bedroom jockeys but much more robust and serious kit is needed. I would go so far as to say, look at RME.
    The gear has impeccable performance and will last virtually forever. I was just a day ago reading about the Fireface UFX+ and although the Total Mix software is extremely complex it has several "failsafes" Even if the AI is powred down and dissed from the PC it remembers ALL the last settings. I am also pretty sure setup "scenes" can be saved and locked in, possible pswd protected?
    I'd have to agree that RME is the way to go if you want a reliable audio interface that is going to be supported for a long time. The downside is that they're not cheap but you can gain many of the RME advantages by buying one of their digital only interfaces (like the Digiface USB) and using it with external mic preamps like the Audient ASP800 or one of the Focusrite 8 channel preamps.

    One suggestion that I would make is to use software that can be installed on USB drives (like Reaper). That way you could give every user their own USB drive with the basic software that they need so that they should never need to make changes to anything installed on the computer itself. If they make a mess of the installation on their USB drive they can wipe it and start again.
    JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration
    http://www.jrpmusic.co.uk

  8. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    northampton uk home of Dr Who and Blackstar Amps!
    Posts
    10,019
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 672 Times in 636 Posts
    Rep Power
    9374895
    Great idea about Reaper on a USB stick James! I did that at Blackstar. I had a works desktop (win 2000) that was setup such that I could not install any fresh programmes but it would run Reaper from a stick.

    The Digiface USB looks good and in additon to the pre amps mentioned, JUST to show no prejudice! Behringer ADA828 would be fine for less demanding tasks, i.e. loud stuff.

    Small snag, no MIDI. But then those that want to run a MIDI based system would probably be better off having a dedicated rig? The new Native Instruments KA6 would do fine service there.

    Dave.

  9. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    2,875
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 418 Times in 382 Posts
    Rep Power
    4008612
    We had a light version of Cubase on 23 workstations for drop-in use. Each one with headphones attached, a small 49 key master keyboard and co-opted the full time on-site technician. With two months we had an extra part-time technician, then two with the co-opted one returning to his old job which had suffered. Then one left, repairs and updates had no funding and then by the year end less than 50% working. It was pretty much a great idea but just too complicated. I used to visit a tech centred school who tried this idea with media computers running adobe for people to come in and produce video blogs with two small green screen studio basic spaces. Exactly the same thing - but worse, a few regular users monopolised it and they made it difficult for anyone else to have any chance of using it because they'd lock features, change passwords, move plugins to protected folders, install their own plugins that wrecked the generic ones and here too, it lasted a year. The people you want to encourage have ideas but fail on technology unless skilled and keen support staff are available.

  10. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    northampton uk home of Dr Who and Blackstar Amps!
    Posts
    10,019
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 672 Times in 636 Posts
    Rep Power
    9374895
    Far be it from me to spend your money but, some things can wait?
    Putting a good chunk of the cash into top end hardware is never a bad thing. Spend it also on room trearment and monitors.

    But savings can be made on things lke the XLR boxes. If you don't need all the connections, all the time rrom the go-get just put in the cables* or even just some cables in 50mm waste pipe and leave pull thrus.
    Looking at XLR chassis skts, you will be lucky to get away under $100 per 16 way box and you need one each end!
    Then you need 32 XLR -XLR cables at say $10 a pop? But, cable can be left unterminated and coiled and bagged until the cash arrives.

    *And whatever cable you go for, the more you buy at one time the cheaper you will get it.

    Jusfort...if you have a tame solderer on the strength look at Tascam wire 25 way D conns for semi-permanent runs.

    Dave.

  11. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    2,875
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 418 Times in 382 Posts
    Rep Power
    4008612
    Whatever you put in place needs to be able to cope with user requests, few of which you will have thought of! The biggest and most common request will be people arriving with audio formats on a device the system cannot use. Aiffs and wavs can be tricky let alone flacs and other odd formats from things they have at home - or them having the audio files embedded into video, and not booking transfer time. They book an hour and spend 25 mins getting the audio in, then forgetting they need to get it out again!

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to rob aylestone For This Useful Post:


  13. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    207
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts
    Rep Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    Whatever you put in place needs to be able to cope with user requests, few of which you will have thought of! The biggest and most common request will be people arriving with audio formats on a device the system cannot use. Aiffs and wavs can be tricky let alone flacs and other odd formats from things they have at home - or them having the audio files embedded into video, and not booking transfer time. They book an hour and spend 25 mins getting the audio in, then forgetting they need to get it out again!
    Just use Reaper and add the required video codec packs to the USB drive installations for video import. All those formats are drag and drop with Reaper. I'd admit that Reaper isn't completely intuitive if you are new to computers but in this situation it can be set up with sensible defaults and templates so that it could be as simple as drag and drop to get started.
    JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration
    http://www.jrpmusic.co.uk

  14. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    98
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    164231
    Having built three professional studios and a few not quite so professional, I would definitely suggest that unless you are VERY experienced in audio electronics and studio building (and that includes the acoustics), I would definitely spend the money and call in a professional studio building company (not the local tradie !!!) and have a full discussion with them as to your exact requirements and have them design everything for you.

    Otherwise, I will guarantee that you will not be happy with the result or not achieve what you are after.

    Also, what happened to studio "C" !!!!!!!!!

    David

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Recording space plus Mixing/Control room question.
    By Bubba po in forum Studio Building & Acoustic Treatment
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-23-2014, 11:50
  2. SEEKS ADVICE: Home Recording - Live Recording Room vs. Control Room
    By FreshChops in forum Studio Building & Acoustic Treatment
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 18:46
  3. Small studio space: one room or control/live rooms? Help!
    By gtrplaya in forum Studio Building & Acoustic Treatment
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-09-2004, 08:51
  4. double duty mixer: pa and live recording
    By solaris0031 in forum Recording Techniques
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-05-2004, 00:11
  5. Double Duty Mics
    By lilray99 in forum Microphones
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 07-21-2003, 04:58

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •