Studio monitors really boomy bassy?

For weeks I've been struggling to get my mix sounding right everything sounded really muddy but if I dropped the bass guitar track volume it would help but the bass would be too low in the mix...

However I decided to render my song down to MP3 and played it in my car... Wow the bass sounds really tight and punchy and if anything could do with a slight boost!

The ew is flat so there's no tweaking from the cars audio system.. so it's either my studio monitors or how it was rendered any thoughts?

Makes me wanna balance with cheap earphones with how it is coming out of the speakers.

I mean everything is soo much clearer...
 
Assuming you've got good monitors for your mixing space, the usual culprits are room treatment and monitor placement.

P.S. You've got 44 posts, why is this in Newbies?
 
What speakers are you monitoring on?

these ones

Studiospares Seiwin 5A Studio Monitors + Monitor Stands - Studio Monitors - Headphones & Speakers - Studiospares

I have them sat about 10 feet away from me on those stand and above head height when im sitting down in my living room... I also use them as tv speakers sat at each side of my tv if that gives you an idea of the setup.

---------- Update ----------

thought best since im still asking newbie questions I suppose lol
 
The Selwins' specifications give a frequency Range of 70Hz-20KHz, which means their bass response will be a bit limited.

Also, there is a good chance that if you push the bass on them, that will only increase the muddy boxiness. And if you cut the bass, you may reduce the bass that really needs to be there. The best strategy is to leave the bottom end alone, and go to other sources to check that (e.g. car, headphones). The Selwins would be great for checking mid-range qualities of a track.
 
What Gecko said ^^^ At that price range, including those stands, they are 'starter' speakers. Assume there are rear bass ports on them, I can't find any frequency spectrum analysis of them. Do you have them near corners in your living room? Assuming your living room is like most, you have carpet, some padded furniture, sheetrock walls - all combining to absorb some highs and bounce a lot of soundwaves around. With a 70Hz low end on those speakers, you can't hear any notes below the 'D of the D string, you are just hearing the harmonics, and the same is probably true of your car's system.
 
hey sorry for slow replies.

I have my tv sitting right under my window with both the stand sitting either side with a bit of distance... so probably ten feet from me and they sit about 6 feet apart from each other creating a triangle shape between me and them.

no carpet solid wood floor, not sure about the walls its a modern flat if that helps.

Yeah the bass on the monitors is just a muddy bass sound but when played on the car audio system you can really just here the punch of the notes clearly and every other instrument becomes clear to the ear.

I agree with the checking the bass elsewhere, as to me in the living room the bass is right where it should be if not a bit muddy but definitely sounds louder than any other part bar the kick drum.

once played in the car the bass is lower in the mix and everything else comes through much clearer.

But I've also noticed rhythm guitar parts also sound thin on the car speakers and quieter compared to when played on the monitors so I guess these monitors are throwing of my balancing stage.

I might invest in decent headphones... I actually prefer it for hearing all the little added extra parts that headphone listeners can only hear... are most people opposed to headphone mixing ? would you suggest a set ?
 
What Gecko said ^^^ At that price range, including those stands, they are 'starter' speakers. Assume there are rear bass ports on them, I can't find any frequency spectrum analysis of them. Do you have them near corners in your living room? Assuming your living room is like most, you have carpet, some padded furniture, sheetrock walls - all combining to absorb some highs and bounce a lot of soundwaves around. With a 70Hz low end on those speakers, you can't hear any notes below the 'D of the D string, you are just hearing the harmonics, and the same is probably true of your car's system.

below the D ? are we talking about a detuned guitar or the d string on a normal 6 string guitar … whats lower than low on an open d ?
 
on the flipside songs where I always felt the bass was too low in the mix on other speakers - televisions marque moon for example.... sounds fantastic on the speakers as it adds a bit more boom to it and brings it a bit more forward than on my car speakers etc.
 
hey sorry for slow replies.

I have my tv sitting right under my window with both the stand sitting either side with a bit of distance... so probably ten feet from me and they sit about 6 feet apart from each other creating a triangle shape between me and them.

no carpet solid wood floor, not sure about the walls its a modern flat if that helps.

Yeah the bass on the monitors is just a muddy bass sound but when played on the car audio system you can really just here the punch of the notes clearly and every other instrument becomes clear to the ear.

I agree with the checking the bass elsewhere, as to me in the living room the bass is right where it should be if not a bit muddy but definitely sounds louder than any other part bar the kick drum.

once played in the car the bass is lower in the mix and everything else comes through much clearer.

But I've also noticed rhythm guitar parts also sound thin on the car speakers and quieter compared to when played on the monitors so I guess these monitors are throwing of my balancing stage.

I might invest in decent headphones... I actually prefer it for hearing all the little added extra parts that headphone listeners can only hear... are most people opposed to headphone mixing ? would you suggest a set ?

Ten (10) feet away from your monitors is not ideal. Hence why they are called 'nearfield' monitors when they are that size. The room they are in contribute to the issues you are hearing.

If there is any way you can get closer to the monitors (like 4' and reduce the width between them to match) you will likely get better results.

That being said, the monitors themselves may be lacking in certain ways that are compounding your room issue.

I am not the biggest fan of headphones unless I have to use them for recording. Though they can be beneficial for listening in detail when editing. So I am sorry I don't have any suggestions on ones for mixing.

Over the years I have learned the importance of a well acoustically treated room and good monitor speakers. Started off with inexpensive treatment and crap monitors. Had to go back and forth all the time to other systems in order to make a guess on mixes. I still do that, but more like 5 times for a full album mix as apposed to 30 before I was able to invest in what was needed.

Start with narrowing the distance from your monitors if possible. That should help quite a bit. Even in my treated room, 10' back from my A7x monitors sounds quite different than being at the desk 4' away. Then look at adding some acoustic panels (not foam) if you are serious about getting your mix translation under control.

Best to ya ftm! :)
 
Below the D string on a bass, which is the same as the E string on a 6-string guitar tuned down to drop D.

That is a possible issue with eq/compression with drop - D - tuning. But likely not the issue here at all man.

The last thing you want to do is pull out the low end because your room/monitors are telling you to do so. You will work in mixing circles trying to find what works.

Been there and done it for years...

Either do/build/buy some suggested and viable room treatment, And/or upgrade your studio monitors. The two go together like peas and carrots. :)

That being said, most do not have that choice or budget to get to the point where checking in other environments is better.

I actually would like to give a good slap in the face to any studio that does not want you to listen outside of their monitoring environment.

I have in mind a few multi-million dollar studios that can go fuck themselves for not giving a shit about the artist/product. They are only there to take your money and finance their gear. May just be my experience but I have heard it over and over from others...



On a side/sad note: One of the cool guys that I was honored to know at FTM studio, passed away this week. He was an old school guy. I will be attending his funeral.
 
I see those speakers have rear ports? Try stuffing them with dense foam. NOT expanded poly! Or just gaffer tape a piece of 6mm MDF or similar over them to stop the port working.

Cheap speakers (sorry, but they are!) you see "overcook" port loading to produce an inflated bass that impresses the unitiated. I doubt the amplifiers in them have much cone control either?

All said about getting closer* and room treatment goes without of course..

*That means you will drive them less hard for a given SPL at the lugs and lower drive levels means less "bad behaviour". Also invest $20 in an C weighted Sound Level Meter and then read up on Mr Massive's Missive on Monotor Calibration. Listening too loud will boost bass and you cannot make valid judgements on different rooms and systems if your SPL levels are all over the shop.

Dave.
 
I third what Jimmys69 and ecc83 already said. Get your monitors closer to you and each other. My room is far from ideal and I have an incredibly tight 'triangle' with my reasoning being that, though I can't eliminate the room's influence on the sound, the sound from the speakers themselves will hit my ears soonest and hardest. Also, did you say your speakers are firing over your head? Try to aim so that the tweets are level with your ear holes.
 
Just for reference, my monitors are 3 feet apart and about 3 feet from where I sit and they are sitting on knock-off mopads. Not that I think mopads actually do much but they do make my speakers sit higher so the tweeters are level with my ears. (I know, sitting them on my desk isn't ideal but I don't have, nor do I have room for, speaker stands. I get decent results this way and my mixes do translate well.

P.S. Forgot to mention, I also use Sonarworks Reference for correction and have found it invaluable. Well worth the money for an easy solution for us man-cave engineers.
 
Hi fendertelemusik,

Re: your monitoring problems -- boominess, etc.:

Please take the time to google "Room mode calculator" and choose any one of the free apps that you will find. The free s/w is pretty simple to install and use. It asks you to enter the listening room dimensions -- length, width, height -- of your monitoring space. (If your room is odd sized, approximating is OK.)

Any of these apps will indicate a list of frequencies that are prone to "boominess" and also those that are prone to cancellation. Also, you will get an indication of the lowest possible accurate bass frequency based on the size of the room. This should indicate the "practical" / "accurate" lowest bass frequency that is possible in your "studio."

If you are unfamiliar with any of the terminology I've used so far -- or if you want to learn a few more of the essential techniques and facts about studio monitoring technology -- please buy any of the studio recording books available used for less that $10.00 online. Examples would be: Modern Recording Techniques by Huber et al., any recent edition, or Sound and Recording by Rumsey et al. or anything about studio monitoring by Paul White (of Sound on Sound magazine). All these books have one or more chapters about studio monitoring, how to set up, how to test, how to deal with boominess or cancellation, etc. (After this you might be better prepared to deal with cross-platform sound-balance checks and be better able to evaluate the quality of your present monitors.)

I hope this helps. Good luck with your recording!

Marc Mathieu, former Pres., Advanced Audio Engineering.
 
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